Most players like to believe that they
do a good job of keeping IC & OOC things separated; and almost none
of them do as good of a job of it as they believe, or claim to the
ST to believe, anyway (if they are the sort to do it on purpose
until caught).
In this workshop, we will cover
several common ways in which players deliberately or accidentally
mix IC and OOC information, as well as present you with some steps
you can take to avoid doing it, or at least cut back on it so it's
not so bad.
WAYS THAT PLAYERS MIX IC & OOC - COMMON TRAPS:
[1a] "Self-Insert" PC's:
This is a subset behavior of "Mary Sue" characters (covered in the
next Workshop, #5). Most players do insert an aspect of themselves
into a PC; that is natural and in fact may help make the character
less cardboard. But this should be done with a very light hand, and
only to the limit you can handle things happening to that PC without
starting to identify with it or take it personally OOC.
A "Self-Insert" PC is one where that
process goes too far, and becomes basically a clone of the player.
Once in a while, doing this as a
deliberate exercise can be amusing, but the practice is mostly
frowned upon, because players who live through their PC's are too
attached to and too sensitive about their PC. They do not handle
attacks, problems, adversity or deaths for that PC, with any
maturity and detachment.
They are the sort of players that
moronic propaganda whores like Jack Chick write
Anti-Roleplaying cartoons about, and the public believes it and
fears he is right because of stuff that players like that do. Don't
be one of those players. It's lame and you need professional help.
[1b] Idealized Self-Insert
PC's: Sometimes, a "Self-Insert" PC is not so much a clone
of ourselves, as it is a basic construct of ourselves, idealized and
modified to be who we wish we were, often containing an unrealistic
amount of perfection in traits and areas the player lacks, and has
issues about OOC. This can be looks, intelligence, skills, finances,
social status, importance, or related areas. It's not a crime if you
have some similarities to your PC. In fact for less advanced players
it is probably a good idea to do so.
However, where it becomes obnoxious
is in one of two extremes:
- Where every single character you
have, shares a major specific class or trait, especially when it
does not fit the rest of the concept very well. If you seem to
continually remake the same character over and over, just
"filing off the serial numbers," as it were, then you are guilty
of this.
- Or, where your PC is clearly
some kind of "One-trick pony" to fulfill some OOC obsession the
player has. Two of the biggest culprits of this mistake are
sexual in nature: PC's designed specifically to romance another
PC, and PC's who are bisexual slutty women, always run by male
players, who are clearly fixated on processing some personal
sexual fantasy issues (these players spend HOURS cybering as RP
and not much else).
The true test for either problem is
this: does your PC have a clear and role-playable purpose OTHER THAN
this trait in question? Could it be removed, and the PC still be
valid and playable? If not, you are probably guilty of doing the
above.
[2a] Romance, Sex &
Relationships: Yes. Sure. There are, legitimately, love, sex
and relationships in The World of Darkness. But remember, they
should be the love, sex & relationships of your PC, not of the
player, and often the two are not the same at all. This can get
tricky because while most players don't get angry or violent when
they are in a combat scene, there is something more intimate and
vulnerable about a relationship scene that can affect you
emotionally OOC. It's very common to draw from your own sexual
experiences or tastes to craft such RP, so that can leave a player
feeling very vulnerable about that scene, as if their personal
business is on display.
Just as certain songs, or certain
movies or TV shows might elicit an emotional response, some RP may
get you OOC caught up in the drama of the moment. Probably a sign it
was a good scene. This is fairly common, and even normal, but you
just have to watch yourself, step back and remember that when the scene is over
with, so are all the warm fuzzies and "hawtt luvvins."
[2b] Fixations on IC Love
Interests: You have no romantic ties to another player OOC
just because your characters do, and conversely you should not
expect or insist on every character you have hooking up IC with
those of your OOC love interest just because you are together OOC,
as friends or as anything else. Two of the biggest mistakes that
players make in this situation are trying to force an OOC paramour
to be one IC, and vice versa. Just because you have a thing for
another player OOC, does not at all mean that your PC must, should,
or even CAN, feel the same way.
On that note, if you are the
Significant Other of another player, don't stalk or harass other
PC's that interact with your SO's PC, IC or OOC. If you are a player
with an overly possessive SO who is prone to this sort of stalking
thing, please get your relationship crap sorted out on your own
time, not ours. Keep it out of the game.
Just because your PC's hook up, screw
or have a romance IC does not mean the other player wants you
romantically, belongs to you, or even wants to get involved in your
OOC real life in any way. A quality role-player will be able to run
characters of vastly different ages, races, or genders than the
player is OOC. That lovely Fae maiden, or sexy androgynous goth boi
vampire you are lusting after, could be run by some 50 year old,
obese, balding married dude with a hairy back, for all you know.
[2c] Exclusionary RP:
Also, do not become the sort of player who will only role-play with
the same person and ignores everyone else, even though your PC
should be talking to them. The ST's will intervene if that becomes a
problem, and it could result in being banned from here. The ST's put
a lot of work into connecting story elements and plot devices, and
when you park your PC in a side channel with its pants down all
night, the RP that actually MATTERS is not getting done.
[2d] Playing Out Sexual Scenes
- Yes or No?: There are legitimately times when sexuality
comes into play in WOD RP. It may be rare, but they do exist. And
sometimes, the mechanics of a scene need to be determined for RP
purposes; you could be drugged or poisoned in the act, embraced by a
Supernatural lover or predator, implanted with a device, ovulating, or other things that are simply
about game mechanics and rules. However, some people are not comfy with
playing this out, and some are. Some sexual scenes actually have
plot value, and some use it just as an excuse to cyber. It's not
right or wrong to play it out, but please show consideration for the
other player and when in doubt, defer to the limits of the more shy
of the two (or more) of you. Remember, this is
the World of Darkness. We are all so comfy playing out all kinds of
violence, abuse and crime, and yet sex makes some people skittish. Something to think
about.
One of the most important decisions
you need to make for yourself as a player, that will help you make
good choices about RP'ing relationships, is to choose which side of
the fence you are on with Role-playing vs. Reality. There are two
schools of thought on this. Again, as with playing it out in detail
or not, there is no "Right" answer; what matters
is that you need to address your choice with those you RP romance
and sex
with IC.
The two choices are:
- [a] Role-playing has no
relevance to real life; my character does these things, not me,
and they have no meaning to me as a player, nor are they
relevant to my real life relationships and sexual life.
Or,
- [b] I understand that
Role-playing is just a fantasy, but playing out romantic things
with someone else is too emotionally intense and involved for me. I
could
become as jealous, or enamored over the scene as I might if
these things happened in real life. So, I would rather not do
them with someone I'm not involved with OOC.
The second one sounds like it is a
mixing IC & OOC issue of another kind, but think about this: some
relationships do not approve of partners having "Cybersex" and would
consider such an action infidelity, so even if you pretend to be
some supernatural creature, the things you type about are really no
different in content to some people, than cybering a stranger online
OOC and pretending to be something. It's a big deal to some relationships, and not to others.
Again, this is not picking a side or judging; you
just need to decide which camp you are in, and keep your IC RP
partners advised of this, to avoid hard feelings. Don't judge which
side they picked; just pick yours and make sure that's addressed
with those you RP with in this way.
[3] Skills & Knowledge Mixing:
Another common trap players fall into (and this is often
accidental), is acting or reacting to something out of what you as a
player know OOC, instead of how your PC should react IC. Players
sometimes lose track of the minutiae of what they do not know or
cannot do very well, especially if it's not something you'd put on
your background sheet or occurred after the fact. There's not much
of a fancy trick to fixing this except to make a deliberate point to
clear your mind and center yourself before going IC. Remember who
you are portraying, and react out of your stats, not your OOC
knowledge. If your PC does not know a thing, you must act that way
even if OOC you are an expert.
I guess the only real advice here is
to be diligent, or maybe to write some more of this stuff down on
your background sheet for reference (who and what you do, and do
not, know). Or, this may be a time to concede to playing a PC a bit
more like yourself until such time that you feel you are ready to
branch out into playing someone very unlike yourself. Don't get
nasty if someone questions how you know something or why you reacted
a certain way. Just make sure you have a sensible answer and give it
to them. It's nothing personal.
[4a] Mood, Attitude & Demeanor
Mixing: This is not as much of a common problem, but take
care that it stays that way. Occasionally, players who are having a
bad, or even a very good day, IRL, sometimes lose track of the
emotional state and mood of their PC. They can be snotty or surly IC
when it's not called for in the RP, due to being depressed or angry
OOC. Or conversely, they might be too light-handed with a PC who was
written as more dour and anti-social, because they are all bouncy
IRL from a good day and their RP is too gregarious, reflecting that
OOC mood.
[4b] Attention Whoring IC to
Fill Some OOC Neediness: This is a complicated problem, and
requires players to be very self-aware people OOC, which many are
not. This situation is where you may be in a mood OOC for attention,
affection, comfort or validation, and that need is unmet and becomes
so great that it starts twisting your RP into seeking it out from
other PC's, and trying way too hard to get it, especially when the
PC would not normally do so. Just be aware if you catch yourself
doing it, or fellow players or an ST make a comment to that effect
to you. Check in mentally with yourself if that should happen, and
see if you are pushing your PC into getting all the attention or
acknowledgment and there's no IC cause for it, or you're inflating
one to get the gratification OOC.
[5] Things You Hear About or
Overhear OOC, Being Used IC: The things you end up hearing
about OOC, cannot be used in game. For example, if someone is in the
channel and they run off at the mouth, "So, I'm building a vampire
who ghouled the chief of police...", you must wipe that out of your
mind and not react to either character about it until you earn that
information in role-play. You might overhear the race, faction,
powers or plans and plotting of other characters.
This is the reason that the ST's are
so anal about players discussing these things in the public channel;
it becomes difficult to just pretend you didn't hear something, and
we have found in our experience that even accidentally, it does
color people's role-play. You may find yourself accidentally
reacting to what you know in some subtle way. So we feel the best
policy is to keep things OOC strictly on a need-to-know basis.
And now the part many of you have been
waiting for - How do you stop doing these things wrong and fix it?
1. AVOID SELF-INSERTING: Stay
away from "Self-Insertion" PC's. Not so much characters who might
share a few skills or knowledges with you, but more so PC's who are
quite clearly, to everyone else, either a clone of yourself or a
fantasy fixation mechanism.
2. AVOID ROMANCE DRAMA: If you
are OOC self-aware and honest enough to know that you have OOC
romance issues, don't write a PC that lends itself easily to getting
involved in them. Make a PC that is not very sexy, or that is
asexual. Remind yourself that PC's who might seem very sexy, may not
be run by someone you would drool over OOC. Make sure you are in
integrity with your real life partner.
3. KEEP IT SIMPLE: If you know
that you are not very good at keeping straight what you personally
know OOC versus what your PC knows IC, build a PC with skills that
you know OOC, for now, and lay off anything really exotic.
4. AVOID RP WHEN IN AN OOC CRISIS:
If your moods, health or other IRL issues are seriously screwing up
your RP, log off for 10 minutes and go get your head screwed on
straight. Get some water. Go outside. Take a pill. Get a snack. Take
a quick shower. Whatever it is you do to collect yourself.
Then, when you are calmed down, come
back and finish your scene, so that you are not acting out your IRL
emotions in places that IC they do not belong. Or if you can't
function, log back on and at least show the courtesy of letting
people know you need more time. Set and agree to a time to
reconvene. On the other hand, don't be a drama llama and ruin or
hold up scenes because of whining or sulking, either.
5. KEEP YOUR PRIVACY, IF THAT
HELPS: An optional choice that some players prefer, is to remain
on an impersonal basis OOC with other players, keeping private and
identifying information to themselves. This is a situation that is
unique to Online RP, with the possible loose exception of Walk-in
TableTop or LARP games in public places such as a convention.
Some people like to be friendly with
other players as one does in a regular tabletop game, and there is
nothing wrong with that, but players who keep a distant privacy
online tend largely not to have so many issues with things like OOC
obsessions about them from other players, or OOC drama being dragged
into the channel because nobody knows your business. This approach
of staying detached works out for some people, and makes others
uncomfortable. It's not a rule, just a suggestion or option.
6. BE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT YOUR
HEALTH: This becomes our business, when players have health
problems that change their moods online and makes them react
inappropriately or be out of control and mess up the RP. Everyone
has a bad night; this passage refers to ongoing problems.
If you are on any kind of medications
for depression, bi-polar disorder, ADD, or other conditions which
drastically impact your mood, DO NOT RP when unmedicated or in any
kind of a medical crisis related to this condition. We can't sit
here and monitor your health to know if you are in any shape to RP,
and if you're not we have no choice but to remove you from play.
7. DO NOT RP WHILE CHEMICALLY
IMPAIRED OR SLEEP-DEPRIVED: Do not ever RP drunk, stoned, or heavily medicated
with something that makes you out of it. Severely sleep-deprived may
even subjectively qualify - if you are very tired, excuse yourself
from the RP or tell an ST. Better yet, get a nap in ahead of time,
if you have to be on later and you already know you're sleepy.
We're not in the business of trying
to figure out how coherent you are, and if you do something really
stupid or obnoxious, IC or even OOC, while messed up, you're
accountable for that. So please just don't even set yourself up in
such a situation. "I was drunk/stoned, it shouldn't count" does not
fly here.
8. KEEP YOUR CHARACTER INFO
PRIVATE: Just don't even invite the chance for people to
metagame by accident, by KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Don't sit in
channel and discuss things OOC about your PC with other players. I
am sure we all like to believe that one another are honest, friendly
people, but [a] some players aren't, sadly, and [b] some well
meaning players are easily flustered and just have a hard time
keeping stuff sorted out, and you just burden them by spilling info
they shouldn't know, forcing them to have to be more diligent about
ignoring it IC. So it's just better for everyone that you obey our
rule about not discussing character information in the channel that
is private.
Obviously this does not pertain to
information that is public knowledge, such as your PC is known to be
a teacher at Blot High School, or a lawyer or anyone with a job
where their name is in the phone book for that function, for
example. It also does not pertain to obvious and innocuous
information (that can't be used by another player to harm your PC in
some way) such as "my character is a girl" or "my character is a
blonde."
Types of things you should shut up
about in public include, for example: Where your PC lives IC.
What your PC plans to do about (blot). How much money your PC makes
and how they make it. What supernatural race your PC is. Quirks,
habits, fears, phobias, derangements, or other weaknesses your PC
has. Where your PC plans to go tonight and whom they will meet up
with (this is just a screaming invitation for players who were not
involved and otherwise were not planning to go there, to butt into
your scene to start crap with your PC. Only tell the PCs who are
supposed to be there; anyone else can figure out IC where you are). Weapons you carry. And so
forth. If you need to discuss these with an ST, do it in message or
a private OOC channel.
PLAYER NOTES AND COMMENTS FROM THE ACTUAL WORKSHOP (10/18-19/05):
Session
Start: Tue Oct 18 19:34:27 2005
Session Ident: #11thHourClassroom
[19:35] *** ^ST1 changes topic to 'OOC Roleplaying Coaching
Workshop. Tonight's topic (#4) - How to Keep IC & OOC Separated.
See: http://www.digitalgothic.net/Rules/nwodicooc.htm'
[20:41] * Player1 gets up from her desk and goes over putting an
apple on Ice's desk before returning to her seat.
[20:41] (@^ST1): ok you guys ready?
[20:41] (@^ST1): hahahah butt kisser
[20:41] (@Player1): damn skippy :)
[20:42] * Player2 plops down his bag in a front row corner seat.
[20:42] * ^ST1 sits on the front of her desk and swings her bare
feet
[20:43] (@^ST1): ok
[20:43] * Player3 walks to the back of the room and pulls his hood
over his face
[20:43] (@^ST1): These are somewhat rhetorical questions but if you
feel so moved to comment, it's ok.
[20:44] (@^ST1): Have you ever had moments in your RP that affected
you OOC in some profound way?
[20:44] (@^ST1): Have you ever had a really bad day OOC, and the
entire mood crept up into your RP IC, even when the scene didn't
warrant it?
[20:44] * Player2 leans back in his seat twirling a pencil through
his fingers idly.
[20:44] (@^ST1): Have you sometimes been flustered, trying to
remember what YOU know versus what your PC knows (not skills-wise,
but factually)?
[20:44] * Player1 yes yes and yes.
[20:45] (@^ST1): Do you find that you always end up pairing off with
your good friend or your Significant Other IC, even when the
characters as written really shouldn't be so chummy?
[20:45] * Player2 hehs
[20:45] (@^ST1): It's natural to have these things happen once in a
while, but left unchecked or happening all the time, it can really
sour the RP experience for yourself and others, whether you bring IC
stuff OOC or vice versa. If you are concerned about keeping each in
its place, this workshop is for you.
[20:46] (@^ST1): Most players like to believe that they do a good
job of keeping IC & OOC things separated; and almost none of them do
as good of a job of it as they believe, or claim to the ST to
believe, anyway (if they are the sort to do it on purpose until
caught).
[20:47] (@^ST1): In this workshop, we will cover several common ways
in which players deliberately or accidentally mix IC and OOC
information, as well as present you with some steps you can take to
avoid doing it, or at least cut back on it so it's not so bad.
[20:47] (@^ST1): Any questions, or comments before I go on?
[20:47] *** Player1 sets mode: +v Player4
[20:47] (@^ST1): Hi Player4. I just posted the intro (which is on
the web site in the topic anyway)
[20:47] (+Player4): Thanks, beby.
[20:47] (@^ST1): thats all you missed, I'm pausing for questions
briefly
[20:48] (@^ST1): ok moving on then
[20:48] (@^ST1): WAYS THAT PLAYERS MIX IC & OOC - COMMON TRAPS:
[20:48] (@^ST1): [1a] "Self-Insert" PC's: This is a subset behavior
of "Mary Sue" characters (covered in the next Workshop, #5). Most
players do insert an aspect of themselves into a PC; that is natural
and in fact may help make the character less cardboard. But this
should be done with a very light hand, and only to the limit you can
handle things happening to that PC without starting to identify with
it or take it personally OOC.
[20:48] (@^ST1): did that cut off?
[20:48] (+Player4): nope
[20:48] (@^ST1): k
[20:48] (@^ST1): A "Self-Insert" PC is one where that process goes
too far, and becomes basically a clone of the player.
[20:48] (@^ST1): Once in a while, doing this as a deliberate
exercise can be amusing, but the practice is mostly frowned upon,
because players who live through their PC's are too attached to and
too sensitive about their PC. They do not handle attacks, problems,
adversity or deaths for that PC, with any maturity and detachment.
[20:49] (@^ST1): They are the sort of players that moronic
propaganda whores like Jack Chick write Anti-Roleplaying cartoons
about, and the public believes it and fears he is right because of
stuff that players like that do. Don't be one of those players. It's
lame and you need professional help.
[20:49] * ^ST1 pauses for questions & comments
[20:50] (@^ST1): anyone?
[20:50] * Player2 scribbles a few notes and then goes back to
listening and watching the teacher's bare feet kick slowly in the
air.
[20:50] (@^ST1): ok moving on
[20:51] (@^ST1): [1b] Idealized Self-Insert PC's: Sometimes, a
"Self-Insert" PC is not so much a clone of ourselves, as it is a
basic construct of ourselves, idealized and modified to be who we
wish we were, often containing an unrealistic amount of perfection
in traits and areas the player lacks, and has issues about OOC.
[20:51] (@^ST1): This can be looks, intelligence, skills, finances,
social status, importance, or related areas. It's not a crime if you
have some similarities to your PC. In fact for less advanced players
it is probably a good idea to do so.
[20:51] (@^ST1): However, where it becomes obnoxious is in one of
two extremes:
[20:51] (@^ST1): [1] Where every single character you have, shares a
major specific class or trait, especially when it does not fit the
rest of the concept very well. If you seem to continually remake the
same character over and over, just "filing off the serial numbers,"
as it were, then you are guilty of this
[20:52] (@^ST1): [2] Or, where your PC is clearly some kind of
"One-trick pony" to fulfill some OOC obsession the player has. Two
of the biggest culprits of this mistake are sexual in nature: PC's
designed specifically to romance another PC, and PC's who are
bisexual slutty women, always run by male players, who are clearly
fixated on processing some personal sexual fantasy issues (these
players spend HOURS cybering as RP and not much else).
[20:52] (@^ST1): The true test for either problem is this: does your
PC have a clear and role-playable purpose OTHER THAN this trait in
question? Could it be removed, and the PC still be valid and
playable? If not, you are probably guilty of doing the above.
[20:52] * ^ST1 pauses again for comments
[20:53] (@^ST1): either you guys have a great handle on this topic,
or you're all AFK ;p
[20:53] * Player2 looks around before raising a hand
[20:53] (+Player5): example of one trait please?
[20:53] (@^ST1): sure, Trey?
[20:53] (@^ST1): Ok Trey then Neph
[20:54] * Player2 goes first. "About the filing off serial number's
characters: Is this so much a problem if the characters are.. well
decent and acceptable?
[20:54] (@^ST1): Yes.
[20:54] (+Player2): *nods* And how similar is. "Similar"?
[20:54] (@^ST1): If you continually write the same PC over and over
again it doesn't matter how legal they are, it becomes bad RP
[20:55] (@^ST1): when people look at it and most of them who knew
the first PC go "Oh that's just vander but he's Garou now (or Demon
or Fae) or whatever
[20:55] (@^ST1): Its subjective, like "What is art" but by and large
you know when it's going on
[20:55] (@^ST1): a FEW traits is one thing
[20:55] (@^ST1): when it's pretty much the twin brother of the
player or of a prior PC, it's getting silly
[20:56] (+Player4): How do you know if you're guilty of this?
[20:56] (+Player2): *Nods*
[20:56] (@^ST1): I'll get to that in a sec Player4. Neph, you had a
question: example of such a trait
[20:56] (+Player4): ooh, sorry.
[20:56] (+Player5): no go ahead
[20:56] (@^ST1): Ok let's say the player is some kinda guy who has a
problem getting dates.
[20:56] (@^ST1): SO all his PC's are big womanizers and studs
[20:57] (@Player1): or when a girl always plays the pretty blond
busty sex-kitten?
[20:57] (@^ST1): So I would say to him: Can your PC be the original
concept with that removed? (Example: can your PC be a Brujah Scholar
without being a pussy magnet. Of course he can. Hopefully the player
will recognize this and let it go_
[20:57] (@^ST1): Yes.
[20:57] (+Player5): so merits, flaws, skills, etc being similar
isn't that much of a problem then?
[20:57] (@^ST1): Or someone is always mega mega smart like Int 5-6
[20:58] (@^ST1): SIMILAR is fine but I would say if they are more
then 25% identical to a prior PC, knock it off
[20:58] (@^ST1): that’s a ballpark
[20:58] (@^ST1): IE: Less than half identical. Change something
major in them
[20:58] (+Player5): what if mechanically they are similar but they
are played differently
[20:58] (@^ST1): race, genre, gender, age, etc
[20:58] (@^ST1): Uhm... if they are mechanically similar how COULD
you play them differently if you are playing them correctly?
[20:59] (@Player1): they why have them be so similar?
[20:59] (@^ST1): you have to play your stats
[20:59] (@^ST1): if the stats are the same the RP will be too
[20:59] (+Player5): a character always has high physical attributes
[20:59] (+Player5): so this character is usually combat oriented
[20:59] (@^ST1): If I see that all the time I'm going to call the
player out for being a combat whore
[20:59] (@^ST1): and the burden will be on them to prove its not
[20:59] (@^ST1): one warrior is fine
[20:59] (+Player5): but the player may approach situations
differently from character to character
[20:59] (@^ST1): Four ass kickers in a row is going to get my no no
face
[21:00] (@^ST1): I’m not talking about how they are RP'd
[21:00] (@^ST1): I’m talking about design here, and design that is
clearly intended to process some OOC issue
[21:00] (+Player5): ok
[21:00] (@^ST1): If more than one person says "That's a Johannes
clone" or something, (insert name of prior PC here), you are doing
something wrong
[21:01] (@^ST1): these things are easily fixed without destroying
the integrity of the char concept
[21:01] (@^ST1): You may have two fighters that fight different ways
[21:01] (@^ST1): one might be a brute and one might be a martial
artist, very eastern and calm
[21:01] (@^ST1): but
[21:01] (@^ST1): You should be able to tell the PC's apart in design
[21:01] (@^ST1): SOMEHOW.
[21:02] (@^ST1): Did that cover it?
[21:02] (+Player5): yes
[21:02] (@^ST1): ok Player4 your question
[21:02] (+Player4): How do you know if you're guilty?
[21:03] (@^ST1): If the ST makes a comment or several players do, is
one way.
[21:03] * Player4 nods.
[21:03] (+Player4): Gotcha.
[21:03] *** Player4 is now known as Player4
[21:03] (@^ST1): Most of the time, the ST is going to say something
at inception. Now... I have had players write PC's that were
different on paper
[21:03] (@^ST1): and not RP them differently, they have one RP mode.
[21:04] (@^ST1): Not to embarrass you Doug but if I could use you as
an example here... cuz it fits the lesson
[21:04] (@^ST1): Doug's used to running warriors.
[21:04] (@^ST1): He's got an intellectual character and the
character often reacts just like Darren does.
[21:04] (@^ST1): He's having trouble separating their personalities.
[21:04] (@^ST1): On paper they are like night and day but in the RP
they aren’t, so much. It’s getting better though.
[21:05] (+Player4): I understand.
[21:05] (@^ST1): IF you are concerned you might be doing it, just
ask
[21:06] (@^ST1): ask a couple ST's, if they read it and they don’t
go "Oh that's a Player4 clone" then you should be okay
[21:06] (+Player5): how can you tell on paper, if they rp the same
as the example above?
[21:06] (@^ST1): How can you tell what on paper, if they are clones?
By the stats
[21:07] (+Player5): yes
[21:07] (@^ST1): By the stats.
[21:07] (@^ST1): If there's way too many that are similar, you
probably have a problem
[21:07] (+Player5): no I mean, I make 2 chars
[21:07] (+Player5): one is very physical, another is very social
[21:07] (@^ST1): ok... go on?
[21:07] (+Player5): stats are different as are merits
[21:07] (+Player5): but they handel situations the exact same way
[21:07] (+Player5): ...handle
[21:08] (@^ST1): That’s not so much a big deal if the "Same way"
fits the stats they have
[21:08] (@^ST1): that isn’t going to happen a lot, if the stats are
not identical
[21:08] (@^ST1): they can have SOME traits in common
[21:08] (+Player4): ...Right-- how do you tell if you've got those 2
characters that are different on paper and RP the same?
[21:08] (+Player4): Right, Neph?
[21:08] (@^ST1): its just when it gets to be excessive
[21:08] (+Player5): yes Player4
[21:08] * Player2 jots down a very simply note: "ST will bust me for
it if it gets out of hand" and leaves it pretty much at that.
[21:08] (@^ST1): well there's two ways I can think of
[21:09] (@^ST1): one's easy, one is harder and requires you to be a
very self aware person
[21:09] (@^ST1): the easy way is when the ST says "you're running
the PC just like your other one but the stats don’t say that"
[21:09] (@^ST1): The harder one is when you look at yourself RP'ing
in various situations and you don’t see or feel any diff in the RP
from one PC to the other
[21:09] (@^ST1): Say a character gets in a confrontation.
[21:09] (@^ST1): Some chars will give it back
[21:10] (@^ST1): some will hide
[21:10] (@^ST1): some shut down mentally
[21:10] (@^ST1): if you see yourself reacting exactly the same to
the same scenario with different stats, you're not playing your
stats
[21:10] (+Player5): hmm, now I wonder about playing your stats
[21:10] (@^ST1): and that happens most often in a situation that is
similar for the player OOC
[21:10] (@^ST1): for example
[21:10] (@^ST1): If you have a person, a player, who is extremely
non confrontational
[21:11] (@^ST1): and *ALL* their PC's run from a fight, even though
one of them is an asskicker... that’s wrong
[21:11] (@^ST1): They're not playing their stats, they're catering
to their own OOC proclivities
[21:11] (@^ST1): what are you wondering, about playing your stats,
Neph?
[21:12] (@^ST1): (This was addressed in a prior workshop BTW if you
ever want to read up on it)
[21:12] (+Player5): say a character has low physical attributes,
would it be wrong to play a character who is somewhat of a scrapper,
just bad at it?
[21:12] (@^ST1): If their stats say they are an asskicker, why would
they BE bad at it?
[21:12] (@^ST1): Ignoring any dice botches
[21:13] (+Player5): low physical attributes
[21:13] (@^ST1): then how are they a scrapper?
[21:13] (@^ST1): That is crappy PC design
[21:13] (+Player2): Attitude.
[21:13] (@^ST1): Make your stats fit your concept
[21:13] (+Player5): but that would be possible in real life
[21:13] (@^ST1): maybe you're describing it in a way IBM not
catching.
[21:13] (+Player5): a drunk who likes to fight, but is bad at it
[21:13] (@^ST1): that’s more complicated
[21:13] (@^ST1): you're not describing a fighter
[21:14] (+Player5): no
[21:14] (@^ST1): You're describing someone who writes a lot of
checks his ass cant cash for him
[21:14] (+Player5): yes
[21:14] (@^ST1): I mean you could have two PC's that aren’t fighters
[21:14] (@^ST1): But I would insist that some of the other stats
differ
[21:14] (@^ST1): SOMETHING
[21:14] (@^ST1): Make one a guy, one a girl
[21:14] (@^ST1): or one Asian one white
[21:14] (@^ST1): or one country, one city
[21:14] (@^ST1): old, young
[21:14] (@^ST1): Something to make it clear they aren’t just clones
[21:15] (@^ST1): one's intellectual, one's dirt stupid
[21:15] (@^ST1): anything to break that Xerox effect
[21:15] (@^ST1): you have a lot of stats to play with here
[21:16] (@^ST1): so there's really no excuse for building the same
exact PC twice. If it happens by accident it is rare that they are
that much alike unless the player is really dense
[21:16] (@^ST1): Did that clear it up any or are you guys still
lost?
[21:17] (+Player4): I'm clear. Basically, Nys' idea of playing a
character by personality rather than stats is valid, as long as the
stats apply and restrict or interfere or enhance the personality.
[21:17] (@^ST1): exactly
[21:17] (@^ST1): Neph, you good?
[21:17] (+Player5): yes
[21:17] (@^ST1): ok moving on
[21:17] (@^ST1): you guys will like this part
[21:17] (@^ST1): [2a] Romance, Sex & Relationships: Yes. Sure. There
are, legitimately, love, sex and relationships in The World of
Darkness. But remember, they should be the love, sex & relationships
of your PC, not of the player, and often the two are not the same at
all.
[21:17] (+Player4): I.e., even though you're bright in stats, you
could play only bookish bright, common sense stupid.
[21:18] (+Player4): oops. Moving on!
[21:18] (@^ST1): This can get tricky because while most players
don't get angry or violent when they are in a combat scene, there is
something more intimate and vulnerable about a relationship scene
that can affect you emotionally OOC.
[21:18] (@^ST1): Just as certain songs, or certain movies or TV
shows might elicit an emotional response, some RP may get you OOC
caught up in the drama of the moment. Probably a sign it was a good
scene. This is fairly common, and even normal, but you just have to
watch yourself and remember that when the scene is over with, so are
all the warm fuzzies and "hawtt luvvins."
[21:18] * ^ST1 pauses for comments :)
[21:18] (+Player4): haaha.
[21:18] (+Player4): Chad & I bullshit OOC when we're IC sort of
intense. It helps the awkwardness.
[21:19] * ^ST1 nods
[21:19] * Player2 chuckles and leaves this one a long.
[21:19] (+Player2): (alone too)
[21:19] (@Player1): a long?
[21:19] (@Player1): Freud and you would get along well :P
[21:19] (@^ST1): It's so interesting how players get wound up about
RP'ing sex but have no problem RP'ing assault or murder.
[21:19] (+Player7): combat can be pretty intense, when there is a
close fight
[21:19] * Player4 snorts
[21:19] (@Player1): Mike and I are a good example of this..
[21:20] (@^ST1): of what?
[21:20] (@Player1): in that "don’t do it." sort of way lol
[21:20] (@^ST1): well you guys are an OOC thing
[21:20] (@^ST1): I’m getting to that next :)
[21:20] (+Player4): My first character had to do some pretty intense
confrontational things, and it was hard to maintain a cool OOC head.
[21:20] (@^ST1): yeah Berke :)
[21:20] (@Player1): Well because it seems a lot of our pcs are
"Together" and it appears perhaps to others that its OOC and not
always IC because they've never seen the pcs we had that wanted to
kill one another LOL
[21:20] * Player3 snorts
[21:20] (@Player1): and ooc feelings got hurt in the process.
Sometimes.
[21:21] (@^ST1): well and not to be mean but a lot of the players
just didn’t put out any RP to ... how do I say this... preclude it
[21:21] (@Player1): I don’t understand.
[21:21] (+Player2): I don't particularly have a problem when others
do it. I try to avoid such things myself but *shrugs* Intimacy is
hard. IC and OOC.
[21:22] (+Player4): But sometimes it's the natural course of things.
[21:22] (@^ST1): There's a lot of people who have given me shit
because a lot of Jon's characters seem to be hooked up with mine (or
for a long while there, likewise with slander's chars), but when
they had their chance at a shot with one of them, their RP, frankly,
sucked. The PC was not earning the attention
[21:22] (@^ST1): They just thought they were entitled and thought
they failed because I wouldn’t let them have what they earned. But
they hadn't earned it
[21:22] * Player2 clams up. Looking out a nearby window.
[21:23] (@Player1): Well I meant, There were many nights when Mike
and I have had characters that try to kill one another, and we've
had to put aside ooc feelings to deal with the IC LOL but yea that’s
another good point too Icey lol
[21:23] (+Player4): I think that's fair. I think your character
should be linked with another character of the same caliber.
[21:23] (@^ST1): What’s sad is one of the few people who RP'd
earning a shot in hell, flaked and left in the middle of that
storyline and dropped everything they'd built
[21:23] (@Player1): the joys of flakey players hehe
[21:23] (@^ST1): Yeah.
[21:24] (+Player4): Now let me ask this-- is it wrong to IC
discriminate against a character based on OOC stuff? Like problems
expressing themselves in text?
[21:24] * Player1 looks at Ice for that answer.
[21:24] (@^ST1): but the point is that I'm actually kind of uncomfy
that there's so many pairings with the same people over and over.
But... I look at the RP going on and I mean this over the years, not
just right now, not trying to be accusatory.
[21:24] (@^ST1): Over the years people simply haven’t earned it.
[21:24] (@^ST1): It absolutely is wrong Player4
[21:24] (@^ST1): But
[21:24] (@^ST1): You have to get OOC clear what is going on there.
[21:25] (@^ST1): I’ve had players who legitimately couldn't write
well. One of our very old players had horrible dyslexia
[21:25] * Player1 takes off her socks.
[21:25] *** Quits: Player4
(private@dm-13514.brndml01.va.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
[21:25] (@^ST1): But dyslexia is not misspelled words and shitty
grammar. It's transposing things.
[21:26] (@^ST1): If you have a player who's just a lazy shit and
won't write well enough so you can at least suss out what they are
saying and the typos are not a distraction, then they are fair game.
Get mad.
[21:26] (@^ST1): shit. Lemme see if she is coming back, hang on
[21:26] (@Player1): kk
[21:26] * Player1 is going to take a break logging though
[21:27] (@^ST1): I pasted her what I said, if she comes back I'll
give her the rest.
[21:28] (@^ST1): But back to the other point... I am criticizing
myself for the fact that I'm acknowledging I have a lot of pairings
and partnerships with the same people a lot.
[21:28] (@^ST1): But I don’t mean it to be cliquish. I give players
a shot at the exact same things
[21:28] * Player2 raises an eyebrow.
[21:28] (@^ST1): but... sadly very few of them have earned it
[21:28] (@^ST1): and I can’t just say Ok I'll ignore the fact your
PC was a blithering idiot and jump his crank. No, that isn't gonna
happen
[21:29] (@^ST1): I am really hoping in 2.0 with some new blood, new
people in the mix, that maybe that will be a chance for more players
to accomplish some things
[21:29] (@^ST1): That was Player4's question so I don’t know if
anyone else had a comment. If not, I’m moving on
[21:30] (@^ST1): [2b] Fixations on IC Love Interests: You have no
romantic ties to another player OOC just because your characters do,
and conversely you should not expect or insist on every character
you have hooking up IC with those of your OOC love interest just
because you are together OOC, as friends or as anything else.
[21:30] (@^ST1): Two of the biggest mistakes that players make in
this situation are trying to force an OOC paramour to be one IC, and
vice versa. Just because you have a thing for another player OOC,
does not at all mean that your PC must, should, or even CAN, feel
the same way.
[21:30] (@^ST1): On that note, if you are the Significant Other of
another player, don't stalk or harass other PC's that interact with
your SO's PC, IC or OOC. If you are a player with an overly
possessive SO who is prone to this sort of stalking thing, please
get your relationship crap sorted out on your own time, not ours.
Keep it out of the game.
[21:31] (@^ST1): Just because your PC's hook up, screw or have a
romance IC does not mean the other player wants you romantically,
belongs to you, or even wants to get involved in your OOC real life
in any way. A quality role-player will be able to run characters of
vastly different ages, races, or genders than the player is OOC.
[21:31] (@^ST1): That lovely Fae maiden, or sexy androgynous goth
boi vampire you are lusting after, could be run by some 50 year old,
obese, balding married dude with a hairy back, for all you know.
[21:31] * ^ST1 pauses for comments
[21:31] (+Player6): COMMENT!
[21:31] (@^ST1): Go right ahead
[21:31] (+Player6): Ok, done.
[21:31] (@^ST1): smart ass
[21:31] (Player4): Sorry, folks
[21:31] *** ^ST1 sets mode: +v Player4
[21:31] (+Player6): Sorry
[21:31] (@^ST1): I pasted you some of the log Player4, did you want
the rest?
[21:32] (@^ST1): in ICQ I mean
[21:32] (@^ST1): AIM
[21:32] (+Player4): Yes please
[21:32] (+Player2): I can admit a weakness at least: I have trouble
running any kind of romantic IC entanglement with another guy..
Unless I know them fairly well/consistently OOC.
[21:33] (@^ST1): Just curious, if you are willing to speak to that
Trey... Why is that?
[21:33] (+Player7): in that case don't actually rp out anything
sexual, that's what I did... but that was also due to other reasons.
[21:33] (@^ST1): Cuz I think this is a highly valuable lesson here
for quality role-players
[21:33] (+Player6): My weakness is that I can't run IC romance with
anybody...: P
[21:33] (@^ST1): Yeah Doug I give you props. You did a romantic
scene with another guy before, and he was playing a woman
[21:34] (+Player5): Do you have to?
[21:34] (@^ST1): but I don't think that makes you gay or anything
[21:34] (@^ST1): depends on the scene
[21:34] (+Player2): No.
[21:34] (@^ST1): incorrect Trey
[21:34] (@^ST1): it depends on the scene
[21:34] (+Player7): just go with the flow
[21:34] (+Player7): nah, i just killed his chick characters later...
j/k :P
[21:34] (@^ST1): If the RP mechanics might lead to something that
the ST needs to know, then yes you might have to at least OOC hash
out what was to occur, play by play, in a clinical manner
[21:34] (@^ST1): yeah you did ;p but there was a reason
[21:35] (+Player2): well I mean if your character is asexual and not
interested in anybody.. then *shrugs* odds are you won't have to RP
any romance.
[21:35] (@^ST1): I'll give you an example of why it matters. This
involves a plot spoiler from about 3 years ago
[21:35] (@^ST1): We had a storyline in here that involved a Kindred
Only Virus.
[21:35] (@^ST1): However it was possible to transmit it through
mortal/herd/human carriers. like a typhoid Mary thing
[21:35] (+Player7): asexual?
[21:36] (@^ST1): Not sexually interested in anyone, Doug
[21:36] (@^ST1): I know that’s a hard concept for you ;p
[21:36] (@^ST1): But back to the story.
[21:36] (@^ST1): We had a key mortal PC as the carrier.
[21:36] (+Player7): thought that meant you were sexless and
reproduced through other means besides mating...
[21:36] (@^ST1): She had sex with and was fed from, by a Vampire NPC.
Who thus became infected.
[21:36] (+Player6): Maybe he buds.
[21:37] (@^ST1): That vampire fed on two more mortals, infecting
their blood but they don’t get sick, and they never knew
[21:37] (@^ST1): So now in a week FOUR PC"s are carriers. And one is
dying
[21:37] (@^ST1): That PC the original carrier, was shall we say a
bit of an IC Slut.
[21:37] (@^ST1): We found out two weeks into the story about three
other PC's who had fucked or fed from her.
[21:38] (@^ST1): People did not tell us and did not RP out stuff....
well some did, honestly a lot of it was people cybering her and not
wanting to confess that that is what they wasted their RP time on
[21:38] (@^ST1): but the problem is the actions were legal IC moves
[21:38] (@^ST1): and we had to track that contagion
[21:38] (@^ST1): within a month.... 75% of the mortal and kindred
game was infected.
[21:38] (@^ST1): because people didn’t pay attention to this stuff
and just fucked and sucked their way across Washington
[21:39] * Player4 snorts.
[21:39] (+Player7): hey, it made the storyline more interesting
[21:39] (@^ST1): 9 PC's died in that game. Another 5 or so were
saved through extremely risky and painful medical and magical means
[21:39] (@^ST1): well sure it did
[21:39] (@^ST1): but Im showing you how "yes we need to know who you
fuck" and not because we want to watch.
[21:39] (@^ST1): Frankly I find most people's cyber extremely
boring.
[21:39] (@^ST1): But from a game mechanic standpoint in the world of
darkness it matters
[21:40] (@^ST1): There have been PC's who use sexuality to spy on
people
[21:40] (@^ST1): feed
[21:40] (@^ST1): implant devices on them
[21:40] (@^ST1): poison them
[21:40] (+Player5): how does that work?
[21:40] (@^ST1): how does what work, sex? (Smirks)
[21:40] (+Player4): ...notice she said 'most.'
[21:40] (+Player5): spying on people using sex
[21:40] * Player2 chuckles and winks at Player4
[21:41] (+Player4): Heh.
[21:41] (@^ST1): Implanting a device on them, using a discipline on
them, scrying... cameras. Lots of ways
[21:41] (@^ST1): The Technocracy alone, never mind Demons and
Kindred, have a dozen ways you could disguise an act of subterfuge
with fucking
[21:41] (@^ST1): I’ve actually done a few of them.
[21:41] (@^ST1): I’ve also had a couple done to me as well
[21:42] (+Player5): is the action automatic?
[21:42] (@^ST1): Absolutely not
[21:42] (@^ST1): and that is WHY we need to know
[21:42] (@^ST1): why I'd prefer it was played out but I won’t demand
it, but I will insist on an OOC hashing it out
[21:42] (@^ST1): I need to know. Do you penetrate here or there. Do
you bite them. DO you use protection. Is there skin contact
[21:42] (@^ST1): etc etc
[21:42] (+Player5): it would seem if it failed, that the person who
was the target would know immediately
[21:42] (@^ST1): That's a function of the power being used
[21:43] (@^ST1): too specific to be relevant here
[21:43] (+Player5): yes
[21:43] (@^ST1): but yes it does in fact become a bit like sex as
combat
[21:43] * ^ST1 eyes Nys and Mike
[21:43] (@^ST1): not that we know anyone who rolls dice to fuck
[21:43] * Player2 uses his notebook to fan himself.
[21:44] (@^ST1): Does that clear it up any?
[21:44] (@Player1): huhwhathuh?
[21:44] (+Player5): sure
[21:44] (@^ST1): Nothing dear. Go back to sleep
[21:44] (@^ST1): OK moving on then
[21:44] (@Player1): heeey they weren’t rolling dice to fuck, its
just.. Anya and William fought. A LOT.. And it lead to sex.. A LOT:
P
[21:44] (@^ST1): This might cut off, lemme know if it does
[21:44] (@^ST1): I'm teasing you dear.
[21:44] (@Player1): I know :)
[21:44] (@^ST1): I did roll dice to fuck once. Not that you asked ;p
[21:45] (@^ST1): But it mattered.
[21:45] (@^ST1): There were eeeeerie powers involved ;p
[21:45] (@Player1): you’ve made me roll dice after fucking. :P
[21:45] (+Player7): I put on my robe and wizard's hat...
[21:45] (@^ST1): Yup and I'm gonna again later too thanks for
reminding me
[21:45] (@Player1): Crap.
[21:45] (@Player1): LOL
[21:45] (+Player5): there are mechanics in D&D for that
[21:45] (@^ST1): ok moving on
[21:45] (@Player1): Book of Carnal knowledge. Love that book.
[21:45] (@^ST1): [2c] Exclusionary RP: Also, do not become the sort
of player who will only role-play with the same person and ignores
everyone else, even though your PC should be talking to them. The
ST's will intervene if that becomes a problem, and it could result
in being banned from here. The ST's put a lot of work into
connecting story elements and plot devices,
[21:45] (@^ST1): and when you park your PC in a side channel with
its pants down all night, the RP that actually MATTERS is not
getting done.
[21:45] * ^ST1 pauses for more comments
[21:46] * Player1 coughs.
[21:46] (@Player1): seen the above done. Several times.
[21:46] (+Player7): obviously though, if your character has no
reason to ever speak with another one, you aren’t going to force
those people to rp together are you?
[21:46] (@^ST1): Yeah not so much now, I think pretty much most or
all of those guilty parties have finally ended up banned eventually
from here
[21:47] (@^ST1): I'm not going to allow you to WRITE a character
that doesn’t have a reason to talk to people at all.
[21:47] * Player2 continues to jot notes at this is mostly academic
to him. Lacking actual experience with these sort of problems.
[21:47] (@^ST1): Lone wolves fuck RP up.
[21:47] (+Player4): Can we talk about how to form relationships with
other PC's? Especially established 'big name' PCs?
[21:47] (@^ST1): That’s what NPCs are for
[21:47] (@Player1): not sure if its a good example but, once upon a
time in a scene.. we had a garou half dead at our feet, and this one
girl was always in the "only interact with so in so" mode.. and she
was so busy trying to get in the other characters pants WHILE the
guy was dying at our feet, she never noticed what was going on.
[21:47] (@^ST1): That would be a different workshop because it's not
an issue of IC versus OOC mixing, but we can speak to it briefly if
you want to Player4
[21:48] (+Player4): Nah, it's okay, we can do it another time.
[21:48] (+Player3): or other PC's who know the bigwig PC's who are
more "approachable"
[21:48] (@^ST1): Yeah that player was busy hitting on someone else.
That player played a healer character.
[21:48] (+Player7): I mean like Darren and Ice, they wouldn't talk
unless it was damn necessary, we aren’t going to be forced to rp
with someone our character wouldn't naturally associate with or have
to out of necessity (god I suck at spelling)
[21:48] (@^ST1): While she was doing that another PC lay dying 10
yards away
[21:48] (+Player5): hmm nympho flaw
[21:48] (@^ST1): well I’m not talking about specific PC's Doug
[21:48] (@^ST1): but what I do not want to see, is Mary ONLY RP'd
with Joe.
[21:48] (+Player7): ah, ok
[21:48] (+Player5): or derangement
[21:48] (@^ST1): She never talks to anyone else, so if Joe is not
here Mary never plays
[21:48] (@^ST1): that’s annoying as fuck
[21:49] (@^ST1): I don’t expect every PC to be pals with every other
PC
[21:49] (@^ST1): that’s just dumb
[21:49] (@Player1): big scary ST monsters will come eat you if that
happens.
[21:49] (@^ST1): But I don’t want PC's who cant be part of anything
unless it is perfectly just so
[21:49] (@^ST1): remember how many nights we couldn’t RP because of
that. Tonight is a good example
[21:49] (@^ST1): we have like 4-5 Gehenna people, 3 key PC's
missing, and a bunch of 2.0 people
[21:49] (@^ST1): so we couldn’t do a scene with that.
[21:50] (@^ST1): That’s an example of what I want to try and have
LESS of in 2.0
[21:50] (+Player7): yeah
[21:50] (@Player1): more group time, less lonewolfing? right?
[21:50] (@^ST1): TOJ is unique because it's a pre canned story but
in 2.0 I will go back to my normal Half Guided story, half go with
the PC flow style
[21:50] (@^ST1): Yes Nys exactly.
[21:50] (@^ST1): At least group being 2-3 people
[21:51] (@^ST1): I was less bored and left out players. So trying to
weave people's lives together more. As friends, or enemies, or
contacts, or what have you
[21:51] (@^ST1): was = WANT
[21:51] (@^ST1): sorry
[21:51] (+Player4): I think that's a great idea.
[21:51] (+Player4): It's far fetched to have to meet EVERYONE you
know at a bar.
[21:52] (@^ST1): I know what you are getting at Doug, but I’m not
talking extreme here. No Darren MUST talk to Ice thing
[21:52] (@^ST1): but Darren should have like 2-3 pals he can talk to
[21:52] (@^ST1): so if pal #1 ain’t on, he can talk to Pal #2 or 3
[21:52] (+Player7): But lone wolfing isn't going to be completely
abolished is it? People are going to have their own motives and
sometimes might need to act on their own to obtain them
[21:52] (@^ST1): Yes, it is Doug.
[21:52] (@^ST1): AS a DESIGN
[21:52] (@^ST1): not as an action
[21:52] (+Player7): motives...
[21:52] (@^ST1): A quest or a mission is one thing
[21:52] (@^ST1): no I wont let it be a motive
[21:53] (+Player7): sorry, was correcting myself
[21:53] (+Player2): Ok.. yes everyone should have a couple of
"friends" IC.. but what if you're an asshole.. (completely
hypothetical of course) who no one wants to talk to?
[21:53] (@^ST1): You need to be someone who is going to want to
interact with others. I don’t want any more of this kind of shit:
[21:53] (@^ST1): ST: Why aren't you playing? There's 10 people in
channel
[21:53] (@^ST1): Player: Well I don't talk to this one, or this one,
and my character wouldn't go here, and hates that, blah blah blah
[21:53] (@Player1): then you probably will have a: a very short
life, and b: be very bored to the point of why are you bothering to
play?
[21:53] (@^ST1): If you design an asshole IC and someone kills him,
your problem.
[21:53] (@^ST1): I won’t stop it the way I did in 1.0
[21:54] (+Player3): Just to point out something here, kinda on topic
and that is kinda a pet peeve of mine, is the "I only RP with people
of the opposite sex"
[21:54] (+Player7): ok, I see now... So our characters can still
lone wolf if they need/want to (to accomplish something) but you
want us to also group up with others, socialize more often, not just
play by ourselves
[21:54] (@^ST1): Bingo.
[21:54] (@^ST1): I want you not to have a room full of 7 players
that can’t talk to each other and RP SOMEHOW. Even in a combat
[21:54] (@Player1): and for the love of god, no more "I only RP with
the ops.
[21:54] (@Player1): LOL
[21:54] (@^ST1): And yes Mike.
[21:55] * Player1 kicks a certain ex-player who was very bad about
not interacting with other players and such because he was too busy
chasing my tail. Grr..
[21:55] (@^ST1): I don't want any more of that shit either. People
who will only play with certain narrow things of any kind. Be it
only men, only women, only the ST's, only my boyfriend, any of that
shit
[21:55] (@^ST1): I’m cracking down on that with an iron fist in 2.0
[21:55] * ^ST1 nods to Player1 and laughs
[21:56] (@^ST1): Trust me I’ve had plenty of those too, and sure the
attention is nice and all but I don’t like the example it sets
[21:56] (@^ST1): People sniffing up Ice or Heather's cootchie and
ignoring other PCs
[21:56] (@Player1): its nice, sure, for like a day or 2.. then it
gets annoying.
[21:56] (@^ST1): Exactly
[21:56] * Player2 coughs
[21:56] (@Player1): too busy trying to get in Lorelei's extremely
tight pants to notice the giant ST post-it note.
[21:57] (@^ST1): You know Trey I’m not finger pointing at you, so if
you wouldn't cough, the class wouldn't turn and stare ;p
[21:57] (+Player4): lol.
[21:57] * Player1 turns and stares.
[21:57] (+Player2): Wasn't what the cough was about.
[21:57] * Player3 looks at Trey "Kissass"
[21:57] (@^ST1): Phlegm?
[21:57] (@^ST1): care to share what it was about then?
[21:57] (+Player2): I just think it's funny.. It’s amusing for a day
or 2 then they get bored..
[21:58] (@^ST1): well it's true
[21:58] (@^ST1): I am not going to deny it's nice to feel like
someone wants your attention
[21:58] (@^ST1): But then it's like.... a horny puppy.
[21:58] (@^ST1): in all the euw kinda ways
[21:58] (@Player1): its amusing, till you cant get other shit done
because you have a nose between your cheeks and your trying to get
other shit done and the player is sitting there going "plaaaaaaaaaay
wiith meeee. "
[21:59] (@^ST1): and the other ST's are giving the player story and
they ignore it because following that lead likely won't lead to sex
[21:59] (@^ST1): And yes. That's happened in here. Often enough that
this lesson had to be posted
[21:59] * Player2 nods and hands Player1 and Ice the "rolled up
newspaper of NO"
[21:59] (@Player1): thankfully I’ve only had 1 person do that too
me, and I now have greater understanding of the woes Ice has had to
deal with, with it..
[21:59] (@Player1): never again. thanks.
[21:59] (@^ST1): Shall we move on then?
[22:00] * Player1 spits a spitball at Trey and goes back to paying
attention to class :)
[22:00] (@^ST1): [2d] Playing Out Sexual Scenes - Yes or No?: There
are legitimately times when sexuality comes into play in RP. It may
be rare but they do exist. And sometimes, the mechanics of a scene
need to be determined for RP purposes; you could be drugged or
poisoned in the act, embraced by a Kindred, implanted with a device,
or other things that are simply about game mechanics.
[22:00] * Player2 looks over his shoulder to Player3 "I haven't yet
even begun to kiss ass" :)
[22:00] (@^ST1): However, some people are not comfy with playing
this out, and some are. Some sexual scenes actually have plot value,
and some use it just as an excuse to cyber. But, this is the World
of Darkness. We are so comfy playing out all kinds of violence, and
yet sex makes some people skittish. Something to think about.
[22:00] (@^ST1): Comments?
[22:00] (@^ST1): This hearkens back to earlier comments
[22:00] (+Player4): ... Question.
[22:00] (@^ST1): sure
[22:01] (+Player5): well violence is generally accepted in main
stream media
[22:01] (@^ST1): I know. I guess I just wanted players to see that
in themselves and realize it
[22:01] (+Player4): What if you have a relatively sexual PC, or a PC
is in a relatively sexual situation-- appropriate or inappropriate
to subject the rest of the players to a sexual or otherwise overt
action?
[22:01] (+Player4): Sort of like a PDA, you know?
[22:01] (@^ST1): If the character is written to be sexual then play
that.
[22:02] (+Player7): difference though, playing out violence is just
gaming... some people view cyber sex like acts as something more,
like if you were currently dating/involved with someone, it would
feel sort of like betraying them.
[22:02] (@^ST1): The player who is being targeted is charged with
reacting as their PC would react
[22:02] (@^ST1): Im getting to that next Doug
[22:02] (@^ST1): Good segue.
[22:03] * Player2 leans back hands behind his head secure on "Planet
Trey" where sex is far more acceptable than violence.. or at least
cruelty
[22:03] (@^ST1): to finish answering you Player4, if your character
is ONLY Sexual and has no other purpose though, count on it not
getting approved
[22:03] (@^ST1): Fucking is a one trick pony, even if it’s a pony a
lot of people like to rude
[22:04] (@^ST1): ride
[22:04] (@Player1): no longer approving cybering and sex as a
purpose for life.
[22:04] (+Player4): Oh, no -- I guess I was asking about taking into
consideration other OOC feelings about the issue.
[22:04] (@^ST1): but if they are well flushed out... and it just so
happens they are very sexual, then they are very sexual
[22:04] (@^ST1): Don’t.
[22:04] (+Player4): Like how some of us felt in Gehenna when we had
the fuck fest.
[22:04] (@^ST1): OOC feelings are not game mechanics and I’m getting
to that part next so why don’t we just go on into it
[22:04] (+Player4): Okie dokie
[22:04] (@^ST1): Well that awkwardness was deliberate
[22:05] (@^ST1): and I was pleased to see it. It made the scene that
much more in your face, as it should be, don’t you think?
[22:05] * Player1 agrees.
[22:05] (@^ST1): I will tell you guys, I felt like I was fucking in
a fishbowl in that scene. OOC it was really tough
[22:05] (+Player4): !! You took the easy way out anyway, Miss PBEM
[22:05] (@Player1): only at the end. lol
[22:06] (@^ST1): cuz OOC I am a very private person about these
things, and to speak to trey's comment, i personally vote for myself
that some sexuality in the RP I do find OOC emotionally threatening
[22:06] (@Player1): up to that point she had more eyes on her then a
sharpei at the Westminster Kennel show.
[22:06] (+Player4): hahaa.
[22:06] (@^ST1): I'll RP stuff out but I have to process those
feelings, just like I have had to do when I did theater and I had a
romantic scene with someone I wasn’t dating
[22:06] (+Player4): That makes sense.
[22:06] (@^ST1): yeah no shit
[22:06] (+Player2): Precisely
[22:06] (@^ST1): I guess I’m trying to have you guys see that its a
lot like actors in movies
[22:06] (+Player2): precisely even. )
[22:07] (@^ST1): its not an accident that romantic co stars often
end up dating later on and hi Shawn welcome to class
[22:07] *** ^ST1 sets mode: +v Player8
[22:07] * Player8 waves and stuff
[22:07] (@Player1): I’ve got a question, sortaa.
[22:07] * ^ST1 holds her next paste
[22:07] (@^ST1): Player8 the stuff we have discussed (at least the
parts I brought up, not the responses) is on the web site in the
topic if you want to read to catch up
[22:07] (@^ST1): go ahead nys
[22:08] (@Player1): I’ve always wanted to ask. and this is the best
place if any.. But, why is it people who often play sexually active
in public pcs, get pissed off when they (the character not player)
get branded with nicknames like slut like they personally are being
called it? (Does that make sense?)
[22:09] (@^ST1): Because the people who do that, often are using
their PC to live out sexual shit they need to process on their own
time
[22:09] (@^ST1): so since it's personal to them in the first place,
they take it as an OOC comment
[22:09] (@Player1): Gotcha, I’ve just seen so many people get pissed
off when they are playing this, well, slutty character, and people
call them on it.. Never could understand it.
[22:09] * Player1 nods, question answered thank ya.
[22:10] (@^ST1): I see that most often in players who spend most of
that PC's RP time just fucking. Not even doing anything plot wise
with it. Not seducing and blackmailing, not conquering, not spying,
just fucking to be doing it.
[22:10] (@^ST1): because I guess they're too proud to go to #FuckPalace
and get it overwith OOC
[22:11] * Player1 snickers
[22:11] (@^ST1): But yeah I guess I would say for the record, if you
run a PC that sluts around IC... and players say "Oh Bambi the PC is
a real whore" whether they say it IC to react to her, or OOC just
... to comment on it... well that is what you get for creating that.
Deal with it.
[22:11] (+Player2): Kinda casts a pale on the worth of their sexual
attention too.
[22:12] (@^ST1): yeah it does Trey :)
[22:12] (@^ST1): just like if you create a PC that has no use but
fighting people will say Sword Jock or Combat Whore
[22:12] (@^ST1): and that player would deserve that as well if it is
excessive and devoid of any story value
[22:12] (@^ST1): just in the same way. Its not that there is no sex
and no fighting in this genre
[22:13] (@^ST1): it’s that it's supposed to have a POINT.
[22:13] (@^ST1): it’s supposed to further the plot
[22:13] (@^ST1): or the action
[22:13] (+Player8): sex should be means to an end, not the end
itself
[22:13] (+Player7): weeee, combat whore
[22:13] * ^ST1 bites Doug
[22:13] (@^ST1): ok moving on now
[22:14] (@^ST1): One of the most important decisions you need to
make for yourself as a player, that will help you make good choices
about RP'ing relationships, is to choose which side of the fence you
are on with Role-playing vs. Reality. There are two schools of
thought on this. There is no "Right" answer; what matters is that
you need to address your choice with those you RP romance with IC.
[22:14] (@^ST1): The two choices are:
[22:14] (@^ST1): [a] Role-playing has no relevance to real life; my
character does these things, not me, and they have no meaning to me
as a player,
[22:14] (@^ST1): Or, [b] I understand that Role-playing is just a
fantasy, but playing out romantic things with someone else is too
emotionally intense for me and I would become as jealous, or
enamored over the scene as I might if these things happened in real
life. So, I would rather not do them with someone I'm not involved
with OOC.
[22:14] (+Player2): Or at least move the two characters somewhat
closer together.. IE if Bambi the slut gets captured by the Evil
Magician then at least "Some" of her deluded paramours should come
running.
[22:15] (@^ST1): exactly
[22:15] (+Player7): I kind of blend those personally, I can separate
the two worlds, but If I'm involved with someone IRL, I can't do the
sexual scenes as I don't feel it to be morally right. And I won't rp
out sexual scenes like that with a guy, call me narrow minded, but I
find that just a bit too weird.
[22:15] (@^ST1): The second one sounds like it is a mixing IC & OOC
issue of another kind, but think about this: some relationships do
not approve of partners having "Cybersex" and would consider such an
action infidelity, so even if you pretend to be some supernatural
creature, the things you type about are really no different in
content to some people, than cybering a stranger online OOC.
[22:15] (@^ST1): It's a big deal to some relationships, and not to
others. You just need to decide which camp you are in, and keep your
IC RP partners advised of this, to avoid hard feelings. Don't judge
which side they picked; just pick yours and make sure that's
addressed with those you RP with in this way.
[22:16] (@^ST1): Why is that, Doug? (I don’t think Trey ever
answered this earlier either)
[22:16] (+Player7): I'm somewhat homophobic
[22:16] (@^ST1): Ok well fair enough if you know that about
yourself.
[22:16] (@^ST1): What I would say is this:
[22:16] (@^ST1): Suppose you have a scene with a guy player and it
comes down to that
[22:16] (@^ST1): Like Darren and Vero did
[22:16] (+Player7): I don't deny it, it creeps me out... And it is
irrational
[22:17] (@^ST1): I would just ask you guys to go in OOC message and
just clinically hash out what they do. Does this one bite that one.
Do you use this power, or that power? Do they do anything that
spreads a contagion or a poison or is blackmailable or whatever.
[22:17] (@^ST1): that’s all we NEED of the scene
[22:17] (+Player7): I can't remember exactly what happened with that
but I am fairly certain we got up to a point and I stopped it and
said "Okay, not rping out sex with a guy, too weird for me, plus I
can't do the whole sex thing, ask Ice for details if need be"
[22:17] (@^ST1): the mechanics that may have consequences
[22:18] (@^ST1): yeah and that’s fine.
[22:18] (@^ST1): I just don’t want any legal game moves to be
ignored is all
[22:18] (+Player7): yeah, understandably... I believe she fed on
Darren during that time as well, we worked all that out
[22:18] (@^ST1): without giving anything away yet until the
debriefing I had to go through this with the whole Loki and Gabby
rape trial
[22:18] (@Player1): basically we need to know if the scenes going to
end up with someone dead, changed, pregnant, insane, blackmailed. We
don’t need the gory details?
[22:18] (@^ST1): I won’t say why yet. But... let's just say all this
was an issue
[22:19] (+Player8): id be very weary of anyone that insisted on
going thru the detailed motions
[22:19] (+Player2): For me it's a matter of "where I and the other
person" stands. Much like the performance in a theater. Knowledge of
what the other person finds attractive, sexually stimulating,
important.. unimportant etc.. and just in general what do they want
out of the scene.
[22:19] (@^ST1): Exactly Nys. I don’t need to know about his 8 inch
throbbing member and her dripping sex petals, I just wanna know did
he put tab a in slot b or not.
[22:19] (+Player2): (To Answer the question from earlier)
[22:19] (@Player1): so you don’t have to act out the gory details,
just hash em out.. (cont from the first part.. getting sleepy)
[22:19] (@^ST1): You shouldn’t do that Trey
[22:19] (@^ST1): You should cater to what the CHARACTER wants. Not
the player
[22:20] (@^ST1): I’ve run sexual scenes with at least four
characters I run. And each one has sex differently
[22:20] (@^ST1): and none of the four has it the way I have it OOC,
not exactly.
[22:20] (@Player1): for Example. What Luxie wants sexually isn’t
what Nys wants sexually. and Nys' sexual preferences shouldn’t
factor into it.
[22:20] (@^ST1): bingo
[22:20] (+Player2): *nods* True enough, It's not "THAT" personal but
there is a little bit of .. "um.. ok.. so how is he going to react
as a "she".. "
[22:20] (@Player1): Nys is not a necropheliac for one.
[22:21] (+Player4): I think sometimes it's important to have a
little of the details-- like, not "DETAILS", but a progression.
Especially if you're working on relationship/emotional IC stuff.
[22:21] (@^ST1): and much as there have been men Casey would like to
disintegrate the penis off of, I haven’t actually ever done that ;p
[22:21] (@^ST1): Bingo Player4
[22:21] (@^ST1): like Player4 and Corvin are actually processing
their sexuality as part of their story
[22:21] (@^ST1): and you turned that into good RP so I don’t bitch
about it
[22:21] (+Player4): I'm a fan of the view above the blanket stuff.
[22:21] (@^ST1): you guys are a good example of what to CORRECTLY do
with it
[22:22] (+Player4): Otherwise, Chad gets romance novel on me and I
start laughing too hard to type.
[22:22] (@^ST1): and also Nys and Mike, what Luxie and William are
alternately fighting about lately in Gehenna is interesting as well
[22:22] (@^ST1): all those dynamics. Sexuality makes people weird
out. Especially old vampires.
[22:22] (@Player1): what part the "I’m your second choice because
I’m the only one who doesn’t look like your dead ex" or the "We were
both virgins when we died what the hell are we doing now" part? LOL
[22:23] (@^ST1): but let's get off sexuality now (hah) and finish
the rest since some people are getting crashy here
[22:23] (@^ST1): Both of them actually
[22:23] (@^ST1): and I like how Ice kinda gets William more now
[22:23] (@^ST1): that all fell into place accidentally very nicely
[22:23] (@Player1): strange how that’s all working out now LOL
[22:23] (@^ST1): Yeah. heh
[22:24] (@^ST1): ok so next sexing er SECTION
[22:24] (@Player1): lol Freud.
[22:24] (+Player2): And lets not forget the three odd men out
dealing with their envy in different ways.
[22:24] (@^ST1): 3] Skills & Knowledge Mixing: Another common trap
players fall into (and this is frequently accidental), is acting or
reacting to something out of what you as a player know OOC, instead
of how your PC should react IC. Players sometimes lose track of the
minutiae of what they do not know or cannot do very well, especially
if it's not something you'd put on your background sheet or occurred
after the fact.
[22:24] (@^ST1): There's not much of a fancy trick to fixing this
except to make a deliberate point to clear your mind and center
yourself before going IC. Remember who you are portraying, and react
out of your stats, not your OOC knowledge. If your PC does not know
a thing, you must act that way even if OOC you are an expert.
[22:24] (+Player3): hey, not a single one of them shook hands with
the bishop
[22:24] (@^ST1): I guess the only real advice here is to be
diligent, or maybe to write some more of this stuff down on your
background sheet for reference (who and what you do, and do not,
know). Or, this may be a time to concede to playing a PC a bit more
like yourself until such time that you feel you are ready to branch
out into playing someone very unlike yourself.
[22:24] (@^ST1): I’m not so sure Trent didn’t ;p
[22:24] (@^ST1): Or Ryder either
[22:24] (@^ST1): but back to the topic at HAND.
[22:25] (+Player4): Hah.
[22:25] (@^ST1): Questions or comments NOT about the sex parts?
[22:25] (@Player1): I will comment that I had a hard time with
Chiana at first... because I knew shit she Should have known, and I
had to remind myself not to mix it.
[22:26] (+Player2): Play a PC more like yourself but don't put
yourself too much into your PC... Hmm.. seems there is a significant
amount of balancing to be done there.
[22:26] (@Player1): about kindred and such, she had to learn it IC
even though I knew it OOC.
[22:26] (@^ST1): Exactly. That’s exactly right, it's all about
balance
[22:26] (@^ST1): And I’m only saying play a PC like yourself to a
more inexperienced player
[22:26] (+Player2): Great. Nys has got you going Buddhist too.
[22:26] (+Player7): that is my problem with many of my characters...
I know a lot about Werewolf and vampire, but i have to determine
what they know and how to apply it, can be annoying
[22:26] * Player1 laughs
[22:26] (@^ST1): someone who hasn’t mastered some of the skills we
talked about in playing something you aren’t good at OOC
[22:27] (+Player8): I think little slips, especially in situations
with rapid fire whit slinging, are forgivable
[22:27] (@^ST1): Of course
[22:27] (@^ST1): I’m not trying to be a Nazi here. These are
guidelines. and goals.
[22:27] (@^ST1): not law.
[22:28] (@^ST1): This is supposed to be fun, and creative. It’s art
and expression and passion and emotion and theater and prose.
[22:28] (@^ST1): There is room in the world for the e e cummings and
the Tennyson and the Plath and the James Joyce.
[22:28] (+Player8): I think maybe that research helps here,
especially when you are playing a character fairly alien to your
personal experience
[22:28] (+Player4): ... okay, what about the opposite-- playing a
character with IC knowledge that you don't have OOC. I run into this
problem all the time.
[22:28] (@Player1): in re: to the playing something your aren’t good
at OOC.. Google is your friend and Ice is a master at finding shit
online.
[22:28] (@^ST1): Oh yes.
[22:28] (@^ST1): That we discussed in the 2nd workshop, Player4.
[22:29] (@^ST1): How to play something you are bad at OOC, IC
[22:29] (+Player4): Yeah, I remember.
[22:29] (@Player1): research research research.
[22:29] (@Player1): :)
[22:29] (+Player4): I need to learn to master the Internet like
y'all.
[22:29] (@^ST1): For those of you who want to spend some more time
on "How do I do stuff IC I am OOC bad at" keep this link handy:
http://www.digitalgothic.net/Rules/nwodicskills.htm
[22:30] (@^ST1): ok next part:
[22:30] (@^ST1): 4a] Mood, Attitude & Demeanor Mixing: This is not
as much of a common problem, but take care that it stays that way.
Occasionally, players who are having a bad, or even a very good day,
IRL, sometimes lose track of the emotional state and mood of their
PC.
[22:30] (@^ST1): They can be snotty or surly IC when it's not called
for in the RP, due to being depressed or angry OOC. Or conversely,
they might be too light-handed with a PC who was written as more
dour and anti-social, because they are all bouncy IRL from a good
day and their RP is too gregarious, reflecting that OOC mood.
[22:30] * ^ST1 pauses for comments
[22:30] * Player2 passes Player4 a Note that reads. "When in doubt
Ask the ST"
[22:31] (@Player1): Most of the time, I am free to help players find
stuff online about professions or whatnot your pc has that your not
familiar with. Particularly anything with the medical stuff...
Google is really a great tool though.
[22:31] * Player1 reads the next chunk
[22:31] (@Player1): ooh I have a good example of that LOL
[22:31] (@^ST1): Also ask the Yahoo list, guys
[22:31] (@^ST1): That’s one reason we have it.
[22:31] (@^ST1): What’s the example Nys
[22:31] (+Player7): solution, make a PC for each of yours emotions
and play accordingly... j/k
[22:32] (@^ST1): Smarty pants
[22:32] (+Player5): I have a question on the link you posted, does
it work for anyone else?
[22:32] (@^ST1): Uh, yeah.
[22:32] (@Player1): Well, as some of you might or might not know
(Ice and Jon do of course) I’m on a shit load of medication for my
heart, one night not too long ago I wasn’t on it and I was a
little.. Cookoo... so my pc did something she normally wouldn’t
have. she went and screwed with a bunch of snakes, when IC she's
smart enough to have known better. but OOC I was off my rocker.
[22:32] (@^ST1): Ahh yeah.
[22:32] (+Player8): sometimes it just isn’t a good idea to go IC..
though I think its easier to play down a good OOC mood that the
inverse
[22:32] (@^ST1): well and see... you follow the example and you said
something
[22:33] * Player4 grins.
[22:33] (@^ST1): and I OOC said something in OPs. like... WTF are
you doing ;p
[22:33] (+Player4): I thought it was a fun night.
[22:33] (@^ST1): Oh it was
[22:33] (@^ST1): She's just saying she kind of was ignoring the big
pink ST post it NOT to keep fucking with the snakes
[22:33] (@^ST1): but because she was loopy
[22:33] (@Player1): yeah it was but Luxie isn’t that stupid and
she's dealt with snakes, she would have known not to toy with em..
Nys however was ignoring the ST going "Stop that" because Nys blood
pressure was too high and her brain wasn’t connecting.
[22:34] (@^ST1): And I'll tell you sometimes I’ve had a really,
really shitty night OOC and I know very damned well I would just
like some attention. And I have occasionally said you know what, I
need to NOT go IC right now, because I will just start feeding that
in the RP
[22:34] (@^ST1): and begged off
[22:34] *** ^ST1 sets mode: +v Player9
[22:34] (@Player1): so pretty much there’s this.. unsaid rule of,
when I’m not on my meds or something, I let Ice and Jon know, so if
I start acting fucked up they call me out on it so I can correct it,
because I don’t really notice it.
[22:35] * ^ST1 nods
[22:35] (@^ST1): and back when my narcolepsy was a lot worse I had
nights where I was wound too tight and had to just log off. That was
it.
[22:35] (@Player1): I remember a couple of those nights.
[22:35] (+Player9): i think i saw one or two
[22:35] (@^ST1): If you don’t realize it right away, at least you
know, deal with it later on
[22:36] (@^ST1): But I’ve had players come in and bitch bitch bitch
about their day
[22:36] (@^ST1): then we go IC and their mild mannered reporter PC
is suddenly this confrontational cunt I need to slap
[22:36] (@^ST1): and we all know its cuz OOC such and such sucky
thing happened
[22:36] (@^ST1): so just.... don't do that, and if you do do it, say
sorry and fix any bad RP from it
[22:36] (@Player1): something in the medical field you learn is to
leave your work at work or you’ll go mad, I guess the same could
sort of be said about Gaming. if you cant, then maybe, you know,
tonight’s not the night to play?
[22:37] (@^ST1): exactly
[22:37] (+Player2): heh.
[22:37] (+Player8): I don’t know about everyone else, but even in
the insanely stupid game i was in previously, sometimes just
slipping into character helps to even me out after a shitty day
[22:37] (+Player2): That is sometimes far easier said then done.
[22:37] (@^ST1): Sure I know
[22:37] (@^ST1): but... at least try
[22:37] (@^ST1): Sometimes that is also true, Player8
[22:37] (+Player4): Is that a viable excuse for begging off RP,
though?
[22:38] (@^ST1): Putting your problems away and dealing with
different ones sometimes diffuses things
[22:38] (+Player4): ... I know how stressy we get about everyone
being on to play.
[22:38] (@^ST1): well it depends Player4
[22:38] (@^ST1): I don’t mean like just a bad day
[22:38] (@^ST1): I mean a day that was so shitty that you know
you're not CAPABLE of being rational and mature
[22:38] (@^ST1): Do you really want me to ST for your character and
kill it in a psychotic rage?
[22:38] (@Player1): I’m pretty sure If I came on and said. "Ice, my
favorite patient at work died today..." she's not gonna force me to
RP
[22:38] (@^ST1): I know I wouldn’t
[22:38] (+Player9): .....mature? so I’m never allowed to play
[22:38] (@^ST1): Cute Chad
[22:39] (+Player8): lost your job, SO of 5 years just left you, Just
won the lottery.. big stuff ;)
[22:39] (@^ST1): Now if someone claims that like several times a
month, they're pulling your chain
[22:39] (@Player1): and we've had people who've done that.
[22:39] (@^ST1): I just had a heart attack and had to go to the
ER.... *eyes Nys*
[22:39] (@Player1): we are wise to that ploy LOL
[22:39] * Player1 laughs
[22:39] (+Player3): Umm....I can vouch for 4 of those 5 times...
[22:39] (@Player1): yeah.. "hey Ice, um.. don’t think Ill be playing
tonight I just got back from the ER"
[22:40] (@^ST1): yeah.
[22:40] (@Player1): we understand shit happens.
[22:40] (@^ST1): Well and conversely...
[22:40] (@^ST1): Remember a couple months ago I came home and we had
this HUGE scene planned
[22:40] (@^ST1): and I had to go put my dog down unexpectedly. I
came home and she was in full renal failure on the floor of the
garage
[22:40] (@^ST1): and I actually WANTED to play. I wanted to be
distracted
[22:40] (@Player1): I remember that..
[22:41] (@^ST1): You gotta know your honest limits and be truthful
about them
[22:41] (+Player7): I remember being annoyed until you told me, then
I felt like an asshat :P
[22:41] (@^ST1): heh. Yeah well I understood.
[22:41] (@^ST1): But yeah Player4 that can get abused, as well. So
its kind of a boy who cried wolf thing.
[22:41] * Player4 nods.
[22:41] * Player1 looks at the clock, grumbles.. It’s about that
Craptastic time again
[22:41] (@^ST1): If everyone senses its just a constant excuse then
no it isn’t cool
[22:41] (+Player4): Be an adult.
[22:42] (@^ST1): but conversely if you are really pissy and wound
up, you will ruin the scene for people anyway
[22:42] (@^ST1): now if you NEED to finish the scene I hope most of
the time people can collect themselves enough to finish it
[22:42] (+Player3): and ruin it for yourself in the long run
[22:42] (@^ST1): 'like say if this happened the night of the
Conclave
[22:42] (@^ST1): which wasn’t really renegotiable save for severe
bodily harm
[22:42] (@^ST1): go get a drink or a hot shower or some shit, come
on, do your business, and there you go.
[22:43] (@Player1): like I said then, IF Me, Mike, Ice and Jon could
be online during that time with all we had going on......... well..
[22:43] * Player1 smirks.
[22:43] (@^ST1): exactly
[22:43] (+Player7): one of the bonuses of playing a Get of Fenris
Ahroun, you can come home annoyed and angry and still play without
many noticing a difference
[22:43] (@^ST1): hahahahaha
[22:43] (@^ST1): That explains a lot Doug ;p
[22:43] (@^ST1): ok Moving on now
[22:43] (@^ST1): [5] Things You Hear About or Overhear OOC, Being
Used IC: The things you end up hearing about OOC, cannot be used in
game. For example, if someone is in the channel and they run off at
the mouth, "So, I'm building a vampire who ghouled the chief of
police...", you must wipe that out of your mind and not react to
either character about it until you earn that information in
role-play. You might overhear the race, faction, powers or plans and
plotting of other characters.
[22:43] (@Player1): alright kids, I’m going to bed, but I’m logging
.. see you all tomorrow..
[22:43] (@^ST1): that cut off somewhere
[22:43] (@Player1): the race, faction, powers or
[22:44] *** Player1 is now known as Player1Logging
[22:44] (@^ST1): You might overhear the race, faction, powers or
plans and plotting of other characters.
[22:44] (+Player7): c'ya nys
[22:44] (@^ST1): This is the reason that the ST's are so anal about
players discussing these things in the public channel; it becomes
difficult to just pretend you didn't hear something, and we have
found in our experience that even accidentally, it does color
people's role-play. You may find yourself accidentally reacting to
what you know in some subtle way. So we feel the best policy is to
keep things OOC strictly on a need-to-know basis.
[22:44] (+Player3): Night guys, staying on to log
[22:44] (@^ST1): ok nite you two
[22:44] * Player3 is away -( Sleep...work...rinse...repeat )- at
10:47p -( P:On / L:On )-
[22:44] (@^ST1): comments?
[22:45] (+Player8): well..... It sure helps if you have things to
talk about besides the game in OOC... in more ways than one
[22:45] * ^ST1 nods
[22:45] (@^ST1): Yeah as long as it doesn’t go to politics,
religion, excessive potty Player9, hate stuff, whatever. Trolling,
basically.
[22:46] * Player2 laughs
[22:46] (+Player7): I do that just out of boredom if there is a
pause, I can look at rolls and vaguely figure out stats... my memory
is too shitty for it to do me any good, but it really isn't hard to
figure things out
[22:46] (+Player8): helps to keep IC and OOC separate. Helps to keep
chatter about IC stuff down, helps to develop friendships so people
actually give a crap about letting others down by bailing on
scheduled RP
[22:47] (@^ST1): I’ve noticed that people who heard shit about some
of my PC's in OOC acted afraid of them IC when they had no IC right
to be, no reason to fear them
[22:47] (@^ST1): even well meaning people react to things they
overhear
[22:47] (+Player7): it's hard not to if you know that person might
be screwing them over
[22:47] (@^ST1): well sometimes I’ve gotten burned with IRC
friendships, Player8, but I can see the point that if some players
treated other players as they would friends, in other words the
dudes you would tabletop with in someone's basement, they might be
less rude to them
[22:48] (@^ST1): that may be a valid point
[22:48] (+Player8): ya get burned in life.. can’t have a good game
with out trust..
[22:48] (+Player8): your point is well taken though
[22:48] (+Player2): *nods*
[22:48] (@^ST1): exactly
[22:48] (@^ST1): ok.
[22:48] (@^ST1): And now the part many of you have been waiting for
- How do you stop doing these things wrong and fix it?
[22:48] (+Player2): hey.. my friends fuck up all the time..
[22:48] (+Player2): I have no obligation to cut them excessive
amounts of slack
[22:49] (@^ST1): yeab but you talk to each other about it
[22:49] (@^ST1): you don’t just kiss it off cuz you don’t know them
IRL
[22:49] (+Player2): aye.. that's the key difference.. The bridges
don't burn quite so easily
[22:49] (@^ST1): People do all kinds of crap in an IRC game that
would get them hit in the mouth IRL
[22:49] (@^ST1): They kid themselves we don't matter because it's
just a computer game, with no more ethic to it than switching off
the X Box, and that’s how some of them behave
[22:50] (@^ST1): that becomes their player ethic
[22:50] (@^ST1): or lack
[22:50] (+Player2): bad philosophy.
[22:50] (@^ST1): I'll bring out and flog my favorite two examples
real quick on that
[22:50] (@^ST1): Theater play and football team
[22:50] (@^ST1): You don’t have to be best friends with everyone in
the play, or every team mate.
[22:50] (+Player2): Ooo a flogging a flogging.. *claps his hands
together*
[22:51] (+Player8): I once let a character get crucified and left to
ash In the sun when I could have avoided it with rumors i heard
OOC....
[22:51] (@^ST1): but if you don’t show up a lot, and you're a dick
and do your own thing and sass the coach or the director a lot....
[22:51] (@^ST1): you're accountable to that team and that cast and
your choices fuck up the lives of other people, even if its just a
hobby
[22:51] (@^ST1): I think it's good you didn’t use that when you
could have easily, Player8
[22:51] (+Player8): I know my only problem is when i suspect I’m
going to get into an IC confrontation with someone that isn’t so
adverse to using info they really shouldn’t have
[22:52] (@^ST1): well if you have reason to think someone's pulling
that in here, SAY SOMETHING
[22:52] (+Player8): shouldn't have even
[22:52] (@^ST1): I have no compunction about calling a player out
[22:52] (+Player8): Well, you know me.. Mr shellshocked ;)
[22:52] (@^ST1): yeah yeah
[22:52] (+Player7): I have problems with that, it is natural though
and I try to avoid it
[22:52] (@^ST1): S'what happens from being an VOE ST ;p
[22:52] (@^ST1): Oh sure it's natural, Doug, but at least be aware
you do it, and try not to.
[22:52] (@^ST1): Or you know, go back and fix it
[22:53] (@^ST1): You learn what to watch for and then you do it less
[22:53] (@^ST1): ok so how to avoid these mistakes:
[22:53] (@^ST1): 1. AVOID SELF-INSERTING: Stay away from
"Self-Insertion" PC's. Not so much characters who might share a few
skills or knowledges with you, but more so PC's who are quite
clearly, to everyone else, either a clone of yourself or a fantasy
fixation mechanism.
[22:53] (@^ST1): comments?
[22:54] (+Player8): I know I always start characters with a seed of
myself..
[22:54] (@^ST1): of course
[22:54] (+Player7): aren’t all characters essentially a fantasy
fixation? You are playing out something you want to be, or are at
least interested in
[22:54] (+Player2): Same here.. it's a balancing act..
[22:54] (@^ST1): There's a tiny piece of you in every character
[22:55] (@^ST1): but it's when you might as well name the PC Shawn
or Trey or Doug or Casey, that it's probably a bad idea
[22:55] (+Player2): Truth be told though, it's simple for me to make
a character almost exactly like me in attitude but with a
significant difference.
[22:55] (@^ST1): Yeah Doug but here's the diff
[22:55] (+Player8): I really use WoD games to explore my different
ethnic heritages....
[22:55] (+Player2): They aren’t lazy.
[22:55] (+Player8): but that is cool, cause I’m not a Russian
Cossack or Highland Clansmen or whatever.. I’m Shawn, the west coast
canuck...
[22:55] (@^ST1): You are pretending to be someone else, but when you
clearly are FIXATED on it; especially always playing characters who
are just like you but more perfect and good at everything... then
it's no longer RP, it's just masturbation with the other players
watching
[22:56] (+Player8): now.. if I made a Audio Engineer from Calgary or
something, then id worry about me
[22:56] (@^ST1): well You could make the PC a girl, Shawn
[22:56] (+Player7): hmm, another Albertan?
[22:56] (@^ST1): Or make them smarter or dumber or black or blind or
something
[22:56] * ^ST1 coughs
[22:56] (+Player8): I’m actually from BC ;)
[22:56] (+Player7): ah
[22:57] (@^ST1): You know me and those Vancouver boys
[22:57] (@^ST1): ;pppp
[22:57] (@^ST1): anyway
[22:57] (@^ST1): next
[22:57] (@^ST1): 2. AVOID ROMANCE DRAMA: If you are OOC self-aware
and honest enough to know that you have OOC romance issues, don't
write a PC that lends itself easily to getting involved in them.
Make a PC that is not very sexy, or that is asexual. Remind yourself
that PC's who might seem very sexy, may not be run by someone you
would drool over OOC.
[22:57] (+Player8): feh..
[22:57] (+Player8): i could write reams about that..
[22:57] (+Player2): uh..
[22:57] (@^ST1): Don't say reams
[22:57] * ^ST1 inches away from Shawn
[22:57] (@^ST1): comments on the posting?
[22:58] (+Player2): Kinda goes against the whole "react to the
Character not the player* rule of romance.
[22:58] (@^ST1): No it doesn’t.
[22:58] (@^ST1): How?
[22:58] (+Player8): I’m not sure if i have any constructive
comments.. just piss and venom
[22:58] (@^ST1): So piss and venom for a minute; p
[22:58] (+Player9): fuck em and chuck em, safest that way
[22:58] * ^ST1 waits for Player4 to smack Chad for that one
[22:59] (+Player2): Remind yourself that PC's who might seem very
sexy, may not be run by someone you would drool over OOC.
[22:59] (@^ST1): That's not contradictory because I’m in that
section speaking about your OOC reaction
[22:59] (@^ST1): I have had players get completely horndog over sexy
looking PC's, and then get hot for the player
[23:00] (@^ST1): because they imagine them to be their PC
[23:00] (+Player8): my personal opinion is that until someone comes
out with a Harlequin Romance RPG, it doesn’t have much of a place
[23:00] (@^ST1): or vice versa
[23:00] (@^ST1): we had a player in here who plays some creepy assed
PC's and once some of the other players found out what they looked
like IRL, they would all try to bed his characters suddenly
[23:01] (+Player7): She means me....
[23:01] * Player7 shuts up now
[23:01] (@^ST1): hah
[23:01] (+Player4): lol.
[23:02] (+Player9): damn right, I’m still trying to corn-hole ya
[23:02] (@^ST1): 3. KEEP IT SIMPLE: If you know that you are not
very good at keeping straight what you personally know OOC versus
what your PC knows IC, build a PC with skills that you know OOC, for
now, and lay off anything really exotic.
[23:02] (@^ST1): #3 is more geared, again, to newer players.
[23:02] (@^ST1): Experienced players are less confined
[23:02] (+Player8): no virgin James Bonds
[23:02] (+Player7): not true, I'm more experienced, I just prefer
doing characters that are more close to my knowledge, makes them
more believable
[23:04] (+Player7): Like Marcus, I kind of gave up with him because
it dawned on me, I knew fuck all of what I was doing
[23:04] (+Player8): well, dice can help you out to some degree
[23:05] (+Player8): but can't totally cover your ass
[23:05] (+Player7): but not really, if you don't really know what is
going on, you look dumb
[23:05] (+Player2): fer serious
[23:05] (+Player8): ST can choose to throw you a bone if you roll
decently
[23:06] (+Player9): yea, or you get called out by someone else ooc
that does know what they are talking about telling you what you said
was totally wrong...
[23:06] (+Player2): Yeah.. but they can choose not to..
[23:06] (+Player8): then yer fucked
[23:07] (+Player2): hence.. do a good job of your self. don't rely
on others or even the ST tossing you bones.. sure it's nice when
they do.. but it's more likely they help you out once in a while if
you're not wanking the rest of the time.
[23:08] (+Player8): point conceded
[23:08] (+Player2): *chuckles* Trust me mate.. it was a hard won
lesson.
[23:09] (@^ST1): I'm just saying, Doug you have been playing a long
time but you haven't stretched yourself too far out of your "box"
yet
[23:09] (@^ST1): Though slowly that is changing but it takes time
[23:12] * Player2 doodles on his notebook paper.
[23:13] (+Player8): the worst thing about players that play
characters above them is trying to explain that to them
[23:13] (+Player2): heh..
[23:14] (+Player4): lol
[23:14] (@^ST1): moving on
[23:14] (+Player2): Well .. I've found that this game varies
significantly from ST to ST.. just the little things that the books
purposefully leave's vague adds up.
[23:14] (@^ST1): 4. AVOID RP WHEN IN AN OOC CRISIS: If your moods,
health or other IRL issues are seriously screwing up your RP, log
off for 10 minutes and go get your head screwed on straight. Get
some water. Go outside. Take a pill. Get a snack. Take a quick
shower. Whatever it is you do to collect yourself.
[23:14] (@^ST1): Then, when you are calmed down, come back and
finish your scene, so that you are not acting out your IRL emotions
in places that IC they do not belong. Or if you can't function, log
back on and at least show the courtesy of letting people know you
need more time. Set and agree to a time to reconvene.
[23:15] (+Player8): sorta covered that ground already, no?
[23:15] * Player2 jots down.. "don't a dick"
[23:15] (+Player2): (don't be a dick)
[23:16] (@^ST1): Yeah but I pre wrote this before we had a
discussion Shawn ;p
[23:16] (+Player8): i know, just saying ;)
[23:16] (@^ST1): smarty pants
[23:16] (+Player9): so, we move on?
[23:16] (@^ST1): this next one is more just one way, its optional,
and not meant to imply the other way is bad
[23:17] (@^ST1): 5. KEEP YOUR PRIVACY, IF THAT HELPS: An optional
choice that some players prefer, is to remain on an impersonal basis
OOC with other players, keeping private and identifying information
to themselves. This is a situation that is unique to Online RP, with
the possible loose exception of Walk-in TableTop or LARP games in
public places such as a convention.
[23:17] (@^ST1): Some people like to be friendly with other players
as one does in a regular tabletop game, and there is nothing wrong
with that, but players who keep a distant privacy online tend
largely not to have so many issues with things like OOC obsessions
about them from other players, or OOC drama being dragged into the
channel because nobody knows your business.
[23:17] (@^ST1): This approach of staying detached works out for
some people, and makes others uncomfortable. It's not a rule, just a
suggestion or option
[23:17] (@^ST1): comments?
[23:18] (+Player8): Basically agree, though i prefer to play with
people that are not detached
[23:18] (@^ST1): and that’s fine
[23:18] (@^ST1): I just wanted it to be clear I’m not dissing your
way
[23:18] (+Player9): I’d rather be a little chummy.
[23:18] (+Player8): thus i prefer,l not insist ;)
[23:18] (+Player9): prevents slander-ism.
[23:18] (@^ST1): I like chummy but I can also say I used to be more
chummy and some players have fucked me over for it
[23:19] (+Player2): As long as their detachment doesn't start
affecting the game negatively I'm fine leaving some one their space.
[23:19] (@^ST1): yeah but then you get people who you consider to be
friends, fucking you over suddenly and you cant understand why
because you thought you were chums
[23:19] (@^ST1): and unlike IRL a lot of times these things never
get dealt with
[23:19] (+Player2): That's the big issue
[23:20] (+Player2): It's a hell of a lot easier to Ostrich online.
[23:20] (+Player2): I.e.. Either bury your head in the sand or run
away.
[23:20] (+Player8): and the larger the game, the more likely that is
to happen
[23:21] (@^ST1): There's no perfect answer
[23:21] (@^ST1): I’m just bringing up the merits of each approach
[23:21] (+Player2): And that's something no amount of online
workshops is going to fix. If a person is a coward they're a
coward.. There’s no "shaming" them into acting honorably..
[23:21] (@^ST1): sadly, that is true, Trey, don’t you wish it were
otherwise
[23:21] (@^ST1): Anyway moving on
[23:21] (@^ST1): 6. BE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT YOUR HEALTH: This becomes
our business when players have health problems that change their
moods online and makes them react inappropriately or be out of
control and mess up the RP.
[23:21] (@^ST1): If you are on any kind of medications for
depression, bi-polar disorder, ADD, or other conditions which
drastically impact your mood, DO NOT RP when unmedicated or in any
kind of a medical crisis related to this condition. We can't sit
here and monitor your health to know if you are in any shape to RP,
and if you're not we have no choice but to remove you from play.
[23:22] (@^ST1): comments?
[23:22] * Player2 puts away his paddle ball and razor blades.
[23:22] (+Player2): What if you can generally keep a handle on it?
[23:22] (@^ST1): If you're keeping a handle on it, then it's not
being a problem. And vice versa. If it's being a problem, you're not
keeping a handle on it
[23:23] (+Player2): gotcha
[23:23] (@^ST1): If you're fucking up a lot and your constant excuse
is "well I’m bipolar or I’m this or that" it gets old. Nys is on
like half a pharmacy of drugs and with one big exception that she's
taken responsibility for, she keeps track of her "times she
shouldn’t RP"
[23:24] (@^ST1): That had a lot to do with the big blowup of her
leaving years ago
[23:24] (@^ST1): But I’ve had players in here who don’t take
responsibility
[23:25] (@^ST1): I had one who CLAIMED to be unmedicated bipolar (I
think she just wanted carte blanche to be a bitch to people) and she
would tear apart the entire channel on a weekly basis
[23:25] (@^ST1): I banned her three times; the last time I kept it
there.
[23:25] (+Player7): sati?
[23:25] (+Player9): speaking of times when to leave, I’m up at 6
tomorrow for more work fun-ness. So I’m gonna jam. Good night
everybody!
[23:25] (+Player4): Night Chad.
[23:25] (+Player8): i sometimes think people should have psych evals
before they can play WoD games. Not practical or moral, but there
are days ;)
[23:25] (@^ST1): This shit did not end until 9 months later of her
sending in her friends to do drivebys in here, to make fake PC's
just to find out our business, and posting a web site up that they
showed in her new channel to other players in which she wrote a
scathing four page put down of our game followed by a live MPEG of
someone getting fisted
[23:26] (@^ST1): nite Chad, I'll be posting notes on the web site fo
what you miss
[23:26] (+Player8): hasta man
[23:26] *** Quits: Player9 (darkerwon@dm-36243.sympatico.ca) (Exit:
uhg)
[23:26] (@^ST1): Scathing that should say
[23:26] (@^ST1): so let me just wrap it up to say that some players
are sincerely ill and are on meds. I’m on sleep meds. Shit happens
[23:26] (+Player7): link? j/k
[23:27] (@^ST1): but like all things, you gotta know your limits and
be honest
[23:27] (@^ST1): its taken down Doug ;p
[23:27] (+Player2): uh.. yeah.. about that... that's one of my
little "Trey only assumptions" .. I mean I know folks have
problems.. me especially and sure.. I'll let folks know "I’m having
trouble with this" in hopes they have some kind of.. help..advice
technique or just slack.. but problems don't give some one anymore
rights then a person with out those problems.
[23:27] (+Player8): shit.. reminds me of VoE vs the 'Touch in the
bad old Dalnet days
[23:27] (@^ST1): If it's under control then nothing is going on that
makes it my problem
[23:28] (@^ST1): If something's going on with your meds that becomes
my problem, its NOT under control. Just like if you were having to
go to a job while medicated.
[23:28] (@^ST1): Either you can function or you can’t
[23:28] (@^ST1): figure it out and fix it
[23:28] (+Player8): Basic life skills type stuff
[23:28] (@^ST1): precisely
[23:29] (@^ST1): and on a related note:
[23:29] (@^ST1): 7. DO NOT RP WHILE CHEMICALLY IMPAIRED: Do not ever
RP drunk, stoned, or heavily medicated with something that makes you
out of it. Severely sleep deprived may even subjectively qualify -
if you are very tired, excuse yourself from the RP or tell an ST.
Better yet, get a nap in ahead of time, if you have to be on and you
already know you're sleepy.
[23:29] (@^ST1): We're not in the business of trying to figure out
how coherent you are, and if you do something really stupid or
obnoxious, IC or even OOC, while messed up, you're accountable for
that. So please just don't even set yourself up in such a situation.
"I was drunk/stoned, it shouldn't count" does not fly here.
[23:29] * Player8 facedesks
[23:29] (@^ST1): Yes?
[23:30] (+Player8): wholeheartedly agree.. Though I have been known
to drink when i play D&D
[23:30] (@^ST1): online?
[23:30] (+Player8): HELL no
[23:30] (@^ST1): or TT
[23:30] (@^ST1): Ok then
[23:30] (@^ST1): If you come to my house drunk I can tell
[23:30] (@^ST1): and I can say Dude, you reek of Coors, don't play
[23:30] (+Player4): Coors.
[23:31] * Player4 snorts.
[23:31] (@^ST1): ;p
[23:31] (+Player8): ewh
[23:31] (+Player8): no
[23:31] (@^ST1): heee
[23:31] (@^ST1): I’m just saying
[23:31] (@^ST1): I don’t want to have to figure out the health of
people I cant even see
[23:31] (@^ST1): make sense?
[23:31] (@^ST1): just be here sober and medicated and rested and
ready to go
[23:31] (@^ST1): simple
[23:31] (@^ST1): moving on
[23:32] (+Player8): I like WoD cause it engages my brain.... getting
buzzed is counterproductive..
[23:32] (@^ST1): 8. KEEP YOUR CHARACTER INFO PRIVATE: Just don't
even invite the chance for people to metagame by accident, by
KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Don't sit in channel and discuss things OOC
about your PC with other players.
[23:32] (@^ST1): I am sure we all like to believe that one another
are honest, friendly people, but [a] some players aren't, sadly, and
[b] some well meaning players are easily flustered and just have a
hard time keeping stuff sorted out, and you just burden them by
spilling info they shouldn't know, forcing them to have to be more
diligent about ignoring it IC. So it's just better for everyone that
you obey our rule about not discussing character information in the
channel that is private.
[23:32] (@^ST1): Obviously this does not pertain to information that
is public knowledge, such as your PC is known to be a teacher at
Blot High School, or a lawyer or anyone with a job where their name
is in the phone book for that function, for example. It also does
not pertain to obvious and innocuous information (that can't be used
by another player to harm your PC in some way) such as "my character
is a girl" or "my character is a blonde."
[23:32] (@^ST1): Comments?
[23:33] (+Player8): when I feel the need to know what is on other's
sheets i have no trust left. I’m done with the game at that point
[23:33] (@^ST1): Types of things you should shut up about in public
include, for example: Where your PC lives IC. What your PC plans to
do about (blot). How much money your PC makes and how they make it.
What supernatural race your PC is. Quirks, habits, fears, phobias,
derangements, or other weaknesses your PC has.
[23:33] (@^ST1): Where your PC plans to go tonight and whom they
will meet up with (this is just a screaming invitation for players
who were not involved and otherwise were not planning to go there,
to butt into your scene to start crap with your PC). Weapons you
carry. And so forth. If you need to discuss these with an ST, do it
in message or a private OOC channel.
[23:33] * ^ST1 nods
[23:33] (+Player2): not really .. I mean.. don't tell anyone
anything you don't want them to know... is kinda.. "Duuuuh"
[23:34] (@^ST1): well Trey you may think it's duh but how many times
has someone new come in here lately and someone always goes "So what
are you playing?" In the OOC room
[23:34] (+Player4): But it's good info if you're new to gaming.
[23:34] (@^ST1): what is good info if you are new?
[23:34] (+Player4): I made the mistake of being very open OOC about
my mortal character when I started.
[23:34] (@^ST1): Oh. Yeah
[23:34] (+Player4): and it fucked her from the start.
[23:34] (+Player2): heh.
[23:34] (@^ST1): Its good to remind new players that some people on
IRC are not so honest, or even MEAN to be honest but just OOC can't
keep it straight
[23:35] (+Player8): there should be ways to find out all that stuff
IC.. Eventually ... why RP if you can just ask?
[23:35] (+Player4): So I know it's redundant to all y'all that play
games normally, but this is my first RP thing EVER-- and it's just
good basic advice to cover, even if it is 'duh' for savvy folks.
[23:35] (@^ST1): that and you were running her with someone who was
INFAMOUS for finding an excuse to horn in on anything you said OOC
like "I’m going to the web with her tonight" so that player would
show up there, and always intending to start shit
[23:35] (+Player2): well.. The trick is in figuring out what you
"don't want them to know"
[23:35] (+Player4): I sort of got tricked, but I take responsibility
for it, and I learned. ;)
[23:35] (@^ST1): anything a smart player can fuck you over with, you
don’t want them to know
[23:35] (+Player2): "That's a big one.. and if it's unclear then
erring on the side of caution is wise"
[23:35] (@^ST1): anything they can’t just see obviously, you don’t
want them to know
[23:36] (+Player8): well...
[23:36] (@^ST1): and that’s the end of the pre canned lecture. Any
questions about this, earlier stuff, or even stuff you just happened
to think of cuz of what I said?
[23:39] (+Player2): *ponders*
[23:39] (+Player8): still thinking about the last point
[23:40] (@^ST1): What about it?
[23:40] (@^ST1): The keeping your Poker hand to yourself bit?
[23:40] (+Player8): well, i haven’t actually gamed with you all, so
this may be a moot comment..
[23:40] (+Player8): but here it is anyways
[23:40] (@^ST1): go for it
[23:42] (+Player8): If you are going to have a "IC privacy"
guideline, which i agree with totally, i think you have to pay
attention to making sure that you can get info IC with a reasonable
amount of effort
[23:42] (+Player4): Thanks babe.
[23:42] (+Player2): that's actually a fairly good point.
[23:42] (+Player8): a new character, for example, shouldn’t have to
move heaven and earth for a month just to fins a few clanmates
[23:42] (+Player8): find even
[23:43] (+Player8): or in the case of NWoD, Covenant members
[23:43] (@^ST1): That’s dealt with in the Background
[23:43] (@^ST1): I don't approve PC's any more until you have some
kind of mechanism built in to ensure you will be able to connect
somehow
[23:43] (@^ST1): to keep that very thing from going wrong, actually
[23:44] (@^ST1): So yes, things you are ENTITLED to know, are
another matter
[23:44] (@^ST1): but what often used to happen is people would run
their mouths in OOC
[23:44] (@^ST1): then next thing they know some player has made a
game move and has an IC excuse for it but we damned well know that
he wouldn’t have MADE that move if you hadn’t shot off your mouth
[23:44] (@^ST1): its not a move they would have logged on and made,
having NOT heard what was said
[23:45] (@^ST1): and in fact that kind of thing is what made me
write this
[23:45] (+Player8): I’ve had abortive starts in games where the only
way i could make connections is by info gleaned OOC.. and i couldn’t
come up with plausible ways to use that info IC
[23:45] (+Player8): shitty position to be in
[23:46] (@^ST1): I’m usually pretty damned good at finding an IC
means to deal with those things
[23:46] (+Player8): but yea, you are paying attention to that issue
so it's all good
[23:46] (@^ST1): its one of my strengths as an ST, I can play the
Kevin Bacon game with any PC
[23:46] (@^ST1): So I would say if anyone who is trying to be good
and keep a closed fist on their cards, is worried about being able
to hook up IC, come see me or any ST and say something
[23:46] (@^ST1): we are MORE than happy to help you figure it out
[23:48] (+Player8): all you really need is a hook into the game and
for someone to make that hook aware that he/she/it IS the hook\
[23:49] *** ^ST1 sets mode: +v Player2
[23:50] (@^ST1): Which I am pretty diligent about doing
[23:50] (+Player8): be careful
[23:50] (@^ST1): I think... i hope anyway, and please just be honest
if I'm wrong, but I like to think the old players believe I do a
pretty good job of keeping chars and stories connected
[23:50] (+Player8): i might get amazed ;)
[23:50] (@^ST1): amazed?
[23:51] (+Player2): Seems Player8 is jaded
[23:51] * Player2 has felt similar
[23:51] (+Player8): like you wouldn’t believe Player2
[23:51] (+Player2): I know the feeling.
[23:52] (+Player2): My personal fav is when the ops have a falling
out and go to war with each other..
[23:52] (@^ST1): Oh he's highly jaded. He used to op in some of the
places that made me jaded
[23:52] (+Player2): It becomes truly Vampire-esq as they kill off or
terrorize the opposing ST's "favored" pc's
[23:52] (@^ST1): Well I can't exactly say anything about that,
Trey.... We came here because of a pretty bad OOC fight between Ops
who were once close.
[23:53] (@^ST1): but at least we never did that shit. What was OOC
stayed OOC.
[23:53] (+Player2): I remember the tale.
[23:53] (+Player7): And there has been some serious fights between
many of us... I flipped out and left two years ago because me and
Ice were getting pissed off with each other
[23:53] (+Player2): *nods* I gathered.. one of the reasons I stuck
around.
[23:53] (@^ST1): I’m not proud of all that drama but sometimes
things get too bad to put up with and people take advantage.
[23:53] * ^ST1 nods to Doug
[23:54] (@^ST1): Yeah... But you know, he went away for a while,
talked bad about me for a bit, got it out of his system and came
back LOL
[23:54] (+Player7): yep
[23:54] (@^ST1): And that’s the odd thing about this place, most of
the people who get mad at me eventually realize, and come back :)
[23:54] (+Player7): Yeah, I was also like 16 when i left, getting
past most of the fun end part of being a teenager... emotions ran
too strong: P
[23:55] (@^ST1): That was hard for me. I actually get really upset
when players get mad, because I Take pride in what we create here
and I don’t want to be like all those shitty horrible gamers we all
cant stand
[23:55] (@^ST1): Yeah as a matter of fact Doug wasn’t medication
part of your drama back then? (Case in point)
[23:55] (@^ST1): you were having trouble finding something that
worked and your moods went completely bat shit
[23:55] (+Player8): I honestly am here for 2 reasons...
[23:55] (@^ST1): Cuz I’m cute?
[23:55] (@^ST1): kidding
[23:55] (+Player7): not really, Medication was a mistake on part of
my doctor and psychiatrist, it just made the situation about 5x
worse
[23:55] (+Player8): well, 3 actually
[23:56] (@^ST1): what are they
[23:56] * Player2 Posts the Sign:
[23:56] (+Player2): "Please don't feed the Ego's"
[23:56] (+Player8): the most important are that despite all the
bullshit I’ve endured, i still think i could have fun playing and
possible STing again.. maybe , one day...
[23:56] * ^ST1 nods
[23:56] (+Player8): Ice was also very persuasive
[23:56] (@^ST1): I know nothing (grins)
[23:57] (@^ST1): He's a VOE refugee, if that helps explain to some
of the old timers.
[23:57] (+Player7): I'm a VH refugee :D
[23:57] (@^ST1): mmhm
[23:57] (+Player2): VOE?
[23:58] (@^ST1): another channel
[23:58] (@^ST1): Vampyres of Europe
[23:58] (+Player2): natch
[23:58] (@^ST1): one of numerous sources for some of the behaviours
that made our rules list so long :)
[23:58] (+Player8): long story short, a RL tabletop friend of mine
and I dragged this channel out of FF stupidity bullshit ...
[23:59] (+Player8): and it seriously was not worth the 3+ years i
put into it
[23:59] (+Player2): I was about to say.. "and then were gripped at"
Session Close: Wed Oct 19 00:00:00 2005
Session Start: Wed Oct 19 00:00:00 2005
Session Ident: #11thHourClassroom
[00:00] (+Player8): the whole channel and its at peak 70 players was
really all about the 2 channel founders OOC romance..
[00:00] (+Player2): awe.. isn't that cute..
[00:00] * Player2 gags
[00:00] (+Player8): when that was admitted I bailed
[00:00] (+Player8): about 9 months later they split and the channel
fell apart
[00:00] (@^ST1): wasn't one of them married too?
[00:00] (+Player2): I have no problem with the big wigs havin a
little romance OOC and IC.. *eye's Ice*
[00:01] (@^ST1): like, to Someone ELSE?
[00:01] (+Player8): one of them still is AFAIK
[00:01] (+Player2): but .. a place for everything and everything in
it's place ya know.
[00:01] (@^ST1): yeah. So this was like an adulterous romance on top
of it
[00:01] (@^ST1): don’t you just love IRC drahmah
[00:01] * ^ST1 eyes Trey
[00:01] (+Player2): not really.. I don't give a shit.
[00:01] (@^ST1): Something to say, dear?
[00:02] (@^ST1): I think what Shawn was implying was more than
unlike here, the entire storyline and raison d'etre of VOE was to be
bit players in the big story of those two humping each other for
real.
[00:02] (@^ST1): like the other 68 people didn’t count for jack shit
[00:02] (+Player2): *shrugs* "I have no problem with the Big wigs
having romance IC .. OOC or whatever.. hell it can even factor into
the game for all I care.. just as long as I get my screen time,
attention and shit stays pretty clear and even.
[00:02] (+Player2): Which seems to be the case round these parts..
best I can tell.
[00:02] (+Player8): Yes.. i had entire storylines of months nulled
when they threatened that
[00:02] (@^ST1): so why you lookin at me? ;p
[00:03] (@^ST1): Ice has... ISSUES, not Romance ;p
[00:03] (+Player8): characters hardly ever died or had seriously
damaging events of any nature happen to them...
[00:03] (+Player2): well .. it is kinda romantic.. even tragedy can
be truly romantic.
[00:04] (@^ST1): Well ok in the Victorian sense yeah
[00:04] (+Player8): I crafted my PC / NPC specifically to work over
some WW canon metaplot and basically got told it would never happen
[00:04] (+Player8): just badness on badness
[00:04] (+Player2): or in the very real lovey dovey.. deep heart
wrenching sense.
[00:04] (@^ST1): But I like to think we don’t railroad the stories
of other characters out of existence just to make the Ops PC's the
star of everything
[00:05] (@^ST1): in the don’t you just wanna slit your wrists and
listen to Joy Division with her, sense ;p
[00:05] (+Player2): you don't.. though the ops and ST's have a far
clearer picture and feel for what's going on..
[00:05] (+Player8): I get that impression.. which is why I’m coming
out of exile to play
[00:05] (+Player2): some of the other PC's aren't quite as
enlightened.. it shows from time to time.
[00:06] (@^ST1): I take your un retirement as a compliment,
especially considering you haven’t really seen us play yet, mostly
taking me at my word and our OOC commiserating about the bad old
days :)
[00:06] (+Player2): Yeah.. watch out mate.. Casey is a silver
tongued devil.. but when that tongue turns into a lash.. watch yer
self.
[00:07] (+Player2): It leaves marks.
[00:07] * ^ST1 ehems
[00:07] * Player2 jumps
[00:07] (@^ST1): He likes mar.... oh wow look, Elvis!
[00:07] (+Player2): Oh! .. *there* you are.
[00:07] * Player2 gets an autograph
[00:08] (+Player8): you know, I actually considered jumping ship for
here a long time ago
[00:08] (+Player8): before i really knew anyone here
[00:08] (@^ST1): you did?? You never told me that lol
[00:08] (+Player8): like, 2 years ago maybe
[00:08] (@^ST1): holy crap lol
[00:08] (@^ST1): what, was I mean to you and made you not go? hehehe
[00:09] (+Player8): I was unable to approach it in the right way.. I
was way too used to the stupidity in VoE
[00:09] (+Player8): In fact,.,
[00:10] (+Player8): i came in to lurk and watch and got banned
[00:10] (+Player8): Was for the best in retrospect
[00:10] (@^ST1): Fuck. What did you do??
[00:10] (+Player8): needed time off
[00:10] (+Player8): did nothing
[00:10] (@^ST1): I don't ban people for no reason ;p
[00:10] (+Player8): well ok, may have done a fly by
[00:11] (@^ST1): I do however have a peeve about lurkers because of
all that crap that old players started about sending friends in here
to make drama
[00:11] (@^ST1): yeah that’s prolly what did it. That 's a pet peeve
of mine
[00:11] (+Player8): hoped in during a slow time, bailed , came back
later
[00:11] (@^ST1): Wow. Well I guess it worked out okay in the end :)
[00:12] (+Player8): Probably a good thing. needed the time off to
detox.. i would not have been good for the game at that point
[00:12] (@^ST1): So everything happens for a reason
[00:12] (@^ST1): Just making sure, last call, anyone have any more
directly related to RP Workshop type questions left, instead of me
and Shawn whining about crappy channels?
[00:13] (+Player8): lol
[00:13] * ^ST1 grins
[00:13] (+Player4): No ma'am.
[00:14] (@^ST1): Neph? Lud? Trey?
[00:14] (@^ST1): I think we lost some of the boys hours ago
[00:15] (+Player2): Nopers
[00:17] * Player2 extends a welcoming hand to Player8
[00:17] (+Player2): Welcome aboard.. for my part anyway.
[00:17] * Player8 accepts
[00:17] (@^ST1): ok break for gossip time then :)
[00:17] (+Player8): much appreciated
[00:17] (+Player2): Hope things work out for ya here.. look forward
to gaming with you.
[00:18] (+Player8): likewise. looking forward to good games with
good gamers in a new WoD
[00:19] (+Player2): Well I hope in time, I can rank on that "good
gamers" list of yours. :)
[00:20] (@^ST1): anybody have any other requests for class topics?
[00:20] (@^ST1): Ive got like, 9 mapped out but open to requests
[00:20] (+Player8): keep IC IC, OOC OOC, and say something
interesting once in a blue moon and your on it ;)
[00:21] (+Player5): Metagaming?
[00:21] (@^ST1): That wasn't covered tonight?
[00:21] (+Player2): *chuckles*
[00:21] (+Player5): kind of
[00:21] (@^ST1): well what did we not cover that you think needs it?
Seriously
[00:21] (+Player2): Ooo.. how about, "How to complain correctly"
[00:21] (@^ST1): I kinda thought this was about metagaming partly :)
[00:22] (@^ST1): heheheheheheh Complain about what to whom?
[00:22] (+Player2): believe it or not.. it's.. kinda important.
[00:22] (+Player2): well.. how to complain to the ST about various
things, problems, troubles etc.. sometimes folks get a burr up their
bum and need to get some response if only.. "um.. deal with it"
[00:22] (+Player5): a player taking something, or improving
something that doesn't make sense to the motivation of the character
but makes sense mechanically
[00:23] (+Player5): like a falling humanity rating
[00:23] (+Player8): intelligent OOC conflict resolution...i’m all
for that
[00:23] (@^ST1): So how to VENT? Or how to lodge an actual real
complaint?
[00:24] (@^ST1): and Neph those things would be dealt with at
creation/approval, not sure precisely what you're after there
[00:25] (+Player2): what Inc said
[00:27] (@^ST1): Conflict resolution between players? Between player
and ST?
[00:27] (+Player2): yes and well.. yes.
[00:28] (+Player2): *hmmmms* Remember the Scene in Saving Private
Ryan.. in which the Captain said: "Pay attention private.. THIS is
the correct way to bitch"
[00:29] (+Player2): Something like that.. What is the best way to
approach an ST or other PC with a problem.. esp if one is unsure if
saying something will only make the problem worse.
[00:29] (@^ST1): well I kinda consider that a no brainer but okay...
it's like the same thing IRL. You stick to the Facts, for one. If
it's an immediate problem (like if left unresolved may result in
like, a PC's death or permanent ruin if not dealt with) then bring
it up to an ST in message. If you are friendly enough with the
player to mention it you can but I figure in your example you
weren’t
[00:29] (@^ST1): Well the way to make the problem worse is to whine
about something thats partly your fault or you're accountable for
[00:30] (@^ST1): but if neither those things are true, it shouldn’t
make it worse
[00:30] (@^ST1): I'd also use Fair Fighting rules. You know what
those are?
[00:30] (+Player7): no halo of the sun in 11thhourlounge...
[00:30] (+Player2): well what if it is true.. what if it's partially
or even entirely one's own fault.. it's still a problem.
[00:31] * Player2 raises an eyebrow
[00:31] (+Player2): Fair fighting rules?
[00:31] (+Player2): Those still exist?
[00:31] (+Player8): you know.. i think that once a player looses
trust in her ST, the player or the ST needs to go
[00:31] (+Player8): if you have that, you can get things sorted out
[00:31] (+Player8): if not, there will always be problems
[00:33] (+Player2): well folks don't always "start" trusted.
[00:33] (@^ST1): ok so how to bring up something that’s kinda partly
or even mostly your own fault but you're still stabby about it and
want to talk?
[00:33] (+Player2): That can be part..
[00:34] (+Player2): There are also legitimate complaints, or even,
suggestions or just plain.. "Why is it like this" questions that can
cause...turmoil.
[00:37] (@^ST1): Well like I said the best way is Fair Fighting
Rules. And yeah they still exist.
[00:37] (@^ST1): Don't be accusatory, and always hold the other
people in a higher place, meaning that don’t assume they are
intentionally being a pain in the ass.
[00:37] (@^ST1): if you do both those things I really don’t think it
can go wrong
[00:40] (+Player2): *nods after a bit*
[00:40] (@^ST1): is this just pre emptively for later or do we need
to talk? LOL
[00:41] (+Player2): Actually only reason I brought it up now is
because I don't have any complaints :)
[00:42] (+Player2): so I guess it's just pre emptively for later.
[00:42] (+Player2): I'm not a fan of making the same mistake twice.
[00:44] * ^ST1 chuckles
[00:45] (@^ST1): well to your credit you are one of the very few
players I've actually seen take advice and run with it and improve,
instead of quitting the game and sulking and making it about me
being a bitch
[00:45] (@^ST1): sadly the latter is the usual reaction
[00:46] (+Player2): thank you. *bows*
[00:47] (+Player2): In the end.. it comes down to value. I like my
ego.. but I'm not about to let it ruin something good.
[00:48] (@^ST1): Well I like to be the kind of ST people can talk to
[00:48] (+Player2): Doesn't mean I don't think your a bitch. *smiles
fondly*
Session Close: Wed Oct 19 01:38:19 2005
|